Electrical Flow - Missing Anything?

[iamjamesmartin]

Hey everyone, I put together this flow that will outline my electrical needs. I still have to figure out the size of the generator, batteries, etc. but wanted to visualize the components needed. I'll basically be using the bus with shore power, but will sometimes use a generator.

Am I missing anything crucial? Any advice on particular products/materials I'd need?

[roach711]

The INverter/charger should be a CONverter/charger unless you're using a standby inverter. The AC to DC converter and a battery charger are often integrated together into one unit.

I would run the shore power 30a line direct to the AC panel then wire the converter/charger to one of the panel breakers.

The DC to AC inverter will attach directly to the battery bank and to the AC breaker panel or to one or more dedicated AC circuits directly attached to the inverter. You don't want to create a situation where the AC circuits are being powered from both shore power AND the inverter at the same time.

Check out the Progressive Dynamics Intellipower integrated power panels. They have AC breakers, DC fuses, a converter and a 3 stage battery charger in one compact unit.

http://www.adventurerv.net/progressive-dynamics-intelipower-pd4045-amp-acdc-distribution-panel-p-22531.html

[gbstewart]

Originally Posted by roach711

The INverter/charger should be a CONverter/charger unless you're using a standby inverter. The AC to DC converter and a battery charger are often integrated together into one unit.

I would run the shore power 30a line direct to the AC panel then wire the converter/charger to one of the panel breakers.

The DC to AC inverter will attach directly to the battery bank and to the AC breaker panel or to one or more dedicated AC circuits directly attached to the inverter. You don't want to create a situation where the AC circuits are being powered from both shore power AND the inverter at the same time.

Check out the Progressive Dynamics Intellipower integrated power panels. They have AC breakers, DC fuses, a converter and a 3 stage battery charger in one compact unit.

http://www.adventurerv.net/progressive-dynamics-intelipower-pd4045-amp-acdc-distribution-panel-p-22531.html

yup, what he said.
gbstewart

[iamjamesmartin]

Originally Posted by roach711

The INverter/charger should be a CONverter/charger unless you're using a standby inverter. The AC to DC converter and a battery charger are often integrated together into one unit.

I would run the shore power 30a line direct to the AC panel then wire the converter/charger to one of the panel breakers.

The DC to AC inverter will attach directly to the battery bank and to the AC breaker panel or to one or more dedicated AC circuits directly attached to the inverter. You don't want to create a situation where the AC circuits are being powered from both shore power AND the inverter at the same time.

Check out the Progressive Dynamics Intellipower integrated power panels. They have AC breakers, DC fuses, a converter and a 3 stage battery charger in one compact unit.

http://www.adventurerv.net/progressive-dynamics-intelipower-pd4045-amp-acdc-distribution-panel-p-22531.html

something like this, then? if i had the power panel, would i have to account for "The DC to AC inverter will attach directly to the battery bank and to the AC breaker panel"

[roach711]

If you go with a standby inverter your original schematic is good to go. The standbys monitor the shore power connection and switch the AC panel breakers between shore power and battery power automatically.

If you go with the second schematic the easiest way is to have most AC circuits attached to the AC panel breakers and one or two other AC circuits attached to the inverter.

If you plan on having lots of AC loads, a big battery bank and a lot of inverter usage I'd go with the first schematic. If you'll be using mostly DC, either direct from a smaller battery bank or plugged in to shore power through the converter, the second plan will be simpler and cheaper.

Much depends on how you plan to use your bus.

[iamjamesmartin]

Originally Posted by roach711

If you go with a standby inverter your original schematic is good to go. The standbys monitor the shore power connection and switch the AC panel breakers between shore power and battery power automatically.

If you go with the second schematic the easiest way is to have most AC circuits attached to the AC panel breakers and one or two other AC circuits attached to the inverter.

If you plan on having lots of AC loads, a big battery bank and a lot of inverter usage I'd go with the first schematic. If you'll be using mostly DC, either direct from a smaller battery bank or plugged in to shore power through the converter, the second plan will be simpler and cheaper.

Much depends on how you plan to use your bus.

thanks! yeah, I thnk im leaning more towards the first schematic. in the case, do I simply make sure that the inverter/charger is standby inverter/charger? or is a standby inverter something that connects to tbe inverter/charger? any suggestions on inverter type/brand?

[iamjamesmartin]

thinking this one as the standby inverter/charger: Robot Check

[roach711]

Originally Posted by iamjamesmartin

thanks! yeah, I thnk im leaning more towards the first schematic. in the case, do I simply make sure that the inverter/charger is standby inverter/charger? or is a standby inverter something that connects to tbe inverter/charger? any suggestions on inverter type/brand?

The standby inverter/chargers that I've looked at all had an automatic transfer switch that monitors the shore power line and automatically switches to battery/inverter power when shore power is disconnected. Most manufacturers have downloadable manuals available on their websites so I usually get the manual before buying the product so I can verify that it actually does what I want it to do before firing up the credit card.

Be sure to add up your AC loads first (including startup loads for stuff with motors) then size the inverter and battery bank to match with a little head room. Big AC loads require a big inverter and a big battery bank attached by a big fat wire.

Here's a good article on inverters.

DIY Selecting an Inverter or Inverter Charger | West Marine

[Jolly Roger]

Just my opinion and something I am doing for mine is that I want my house batteries completely seperate from the bus alternator/starting batteries that way I know that even if the house is drained I can always start up and go and if I have a problem with the house I know it's the house bank and if the bus don't start I only have the starting battery and associated parts to troubleshoot unless of course you add a second alternator/or have one already just for charging the house.

[iamjamesmartin]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

Just my opinion and something I am doing for mine is that I want my house batteries completely seperate from the bus alternator/starting batteries that way I know that even if the house is drained I can always start up and go and if I have a problem with the house I know it's the house bank and if the bus don't start I only have the starting battery and associated parts to troubleshoot unless of course you add a second alternator/or have one already just for charging the house.

yes, that's a very good point. having the alternator/relay charge the house batteries sounds nice in theory but does certainly add some complexity in terms of hookup. it's something i'm still weighing the options of!

[Tango]

Battery isolaters.

[roach711]

It's highly recommended to have some way to disconnect the two banks for several reasons.

1) you avoid drawing down both banks while camping.

2) Starting and deep cycle batteries are charged differently so being able to disconnect them makes it possible to charge them separately.

3) When parked you don't want to overcharge the starting bank while charging the house bank.

4) You avoid pulling your house bank down when starting.

You can use a manual battery switch, a relay or a diode based battery isolater. The diode based isolater will draw some power itself and prevent the batteries from getting a full charge. The relay and manual switch avoid that. The relay is automatic and saves you from those "duh" moments where you forget to disconnect the banks when camping.

[iamjamesmartin]

Here's my current/proposed list of elements for the schematic i posted on the first post. Do i go with 50A instead of 30A? Do i go with Pure instead of Modified? Tips on where to buy the batteries? why get two/four 6v over one/two 12v?



30A Power Adapter: Robot Check

30A Power Inlet: http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wi...quiresSignIn=1

Inverter/Charger Option 1 - 2000 Watt Modified: Robot Check

Inverter Option 2 - 2000 Watt Pure: Robot Check

Inverter Option 3 - 3000 Watt Pure: Robot Check

Remote Control: Robot Check

Automatic Transfer Switch: Robot Check

24-space Breaker Panel: Shop Square D 48-Circuit 24-Space 100-Amp Main Breaker Load Center (Value Pack) at Lowes.com

12-space Fuse Block & Cover: Robot Check

Battery Bank: still researching. any tips/places to look?

Battery Monitor: https://www.altestore.com/store/mete...onitor-p11263/

Isolator: Robot Check

[roach711]

What appliances are you planning on running? Will you mostly boondock or mostly plug in?

[iamjamesmartin]

Originally Posted by roach711

What appliances are you planning on running? Will you mostly boondock or mostly plug in?

mostly plug in, honestly. but want to set up to run off a generator if needed:

AC
air conditioner unit
tv
laptops (2)
phone chargers
mini fridge or chest freezer
electric stovetop
lamps
outlets
USB ports w/ outlets
hair dryer
water heater (for shower/sink)
toaster
microwave
dvd player
cordless vacuum charger

DC
vent fan in bathroom
stereo
speakers/mp3 player
water pump
ceiling lights (6 bulbs)

[roach711]

Most of that AC stuff is high drain so go with the 50 amp service, a 2 phase generator and, if you want to run much of that off batteries, a big ass battery bank and inverter. Basically, you're powering your house.

6v golf cart batteries hold up better than 12v deep cycles, particularly when you're deep cycling them (draining them completely). For good battery life, only drain them down to 50% charge (12.1v).

[iamjamesmartin]

Originally Posted by roach711

Most of that AC stuff is high drain so go with the 50 amp service, a 2 phase generator and, if you want to run much of that off batteries, a big ass battery bank and inverter. Basically, you're powering your house.

6v golf cart batteries hold up better than 12v deep cycles, particularly when you're deep cycling them (draining them completely). For good battery life, only drain them down to 50% charge (12.1v).

ok, thanks! that was just a list of things that we'd possibly use sporadically. the things we'll use more often are:

AC
air conditioner unit
tv
laptops (2)
phone chargers
mini fridge or chest freezer
water heater (for shower/sink)


DC
vent fan in bathroom
stereo
speakers/mp3 player
water pump
ceiling lights (6 bulbs)

[TAOLIK]

Hey, I'm a little late here. But I learned a lot from reading handybobsolar's battery puzzle.

For inverters he seems to really like magnum brand inverters, which is why I bought/am going to buy a magnum mms1012.

For batteries, he seems to push crown deep cycle 6v and trojan t105's which is probably what I will get if/when my dumpster batteries don't work out for me.

That said if you see any fork lifts or rider jacks by a dumpster, take the batteries!

[iamjamesmartin]

Originally Posted by roach711

Most of that AC stuff is high drain so go with the 50 amp service, a 2 phase generator and, if you want to run much of that off batteries, a big ass battery bank and inverter. Basically, you're powering your house.

6v golf cart batteries hold up better than 12v deep cycles, particularly when you're deep cycling them (draining them completely). For good battery life, only drain them down to 50% charge (12.1v).

hey man, i made a google doc with all of my electrical stuff in it and could really use someone looking it over before i commit to purchasing materials. would you mind having a gander and letting me know how it looks? there are a couple questions in there if you don't mind:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1..._c8EWORzY/edit

[CaptSquid]

Originally Posted by iamjamesmartin

ok, thanks! that was just a list of things that we'd possibly use sporadically. the things we'll use more often are:

AC
air conditioner unit
tv
laptops (2)
phone chargers
mini fridge or chest freezer
water heater (for shower/sink)


DC
vent fan in bathroom
stereo
speakers/mp3 player
water pump
ceiling lights (6 bulbs)

Water heater (demand) should be propane, not electrical.
Ceiling lights should be replaced by LED lights.
You can also charge your cell phones on DC power.
Air conditioning? Try opening the windows/roof vents unless you live on the outskirts of Hades.