Electrical mathmatical frustrations.

[kazetsukai]

Originally Posted by AutumnB

I didn't want to get into plumbing gas as l know very little about it.

I was definitely like you in that I didn't want to deal with gas infrastructure- so it ended up very simple.

For our water heater, I just used grill hose the whole length. No special plumbing. A standard grill attachment on the 25lb tank which is located in my engine compartment, and an extension hose ~12ft in length. I drilled a 1.5" hole into the cabin, and put a PVC bulkhead in so that the hose wouldn't get scratched by the metal. I fed the hose into the bulkhead and then sealed it up with duct seal.


Inside the cabin, its all one length of hose directly to the water heater, with a propane gas detector/alarm positioned right below it.

[john61ct]

Better to use copper, even black iron for long runs.

Rubber you need to pressure test and inspect regularly, replace as soon as you get cracking.

Boom bad!

[BlackJohn]

Not to mention rodents will find rubber hoses under a bus or inside and munch away. Much rather go black pipe or copper. And then there is road debris driving that will require heavy inspection times, depending on your travels. More time under the bus that isn't really necessary.


This can and does happen with pex also so be aware.


John

[TheArgobus]

You may want to prime yourself with this podcast episode (https://soundcloud.com/theoffgridsko...r-conditioning), in which they interview the owner of Broccoli Bus (also on this forum, look for his build thread).



Big picture: he spent a total of about $30,000 for his electric setup, including a salvaged battery pack from a Nissan Leaf. Even with his 20kWh battery bank and solar panels, he says he can only maintain total off grid capacity about 50% of the time. I don't want to discourage anyone, but others have said it best: if you want to go off grid, you'd better get used to a different way of living without washers, driers, and the like.

[john61ct]

Or just burn a lot of petrol in a noisy genset

[BlackJohn]

Conservation would be key consideration. So easy to practice it.


I'd put up a clothesline before even entertaining having a dryer onboard.
Clothes washing can be done without a machine too, you do have the time.



All the planning in the world goes out the window in practical use with each door or window opening, people in and out etc. I intend to be outdoors most of the time, not sitting in a bus all day and night.


John

[Ranchorossa]

Dish washer, dryer, refrigerator, welder, a/c, heater. Wow, that's a lot of power. You will need to use that generator! Everyone has told you how to run the numbers and it can get frustrating. Might have to separate your needs from your wants. Propane is a great way to go for water heating, stove and refrigeration. A big tank under the bus is easy to fill and there are plenty of places to get propane. Run a separate circuit for the big A/C things and just use the generator when you have to. If you wanted to run all that stuff off of batteries, well, you're gonna need a bigger bus to haul all of those batteries. Good luck.

[AutumnB]

I wasn't planning on a dryer. Mother nature can do that. Welder would only be used in limited use as needed when working on projects or side jobs. The generator will run that when needed. I have decided to use propane for the furnace stove and hot water. I will have to look into it but l also have a quiet Onan generator that's 3500. It should run lights and air compressor easily in the trailer.
I don't plan on using leaf batteries. They are too expensive and it's cheaper if you know what your doing to use deep cycle starting batteries. Using a 39 series battery will be a bigger battery and thinking 16 to 20 batteries. Thinking of putting electrical room in the center for distribution of weight.

[dzl_]

Have a look at this comparison of 'Trail Welders'
Trail Welder Comparison

[AutumnB]

Originally Posted by dzl_

Have a look at this comparison of 'Trail Welders'
Trail Welder Comparison

That's pretty interesting. Will look into it. I had planned on just a portable Lincoln.

[Ranchorossa]

16-20 batteries? That's an insane number of batteries in a schoolie. You're going to need a lot of solar panels to charge them. Even if you use your generator to power a battery charger, or two, you'll be running that thing all day.

[mmoore6856]

consider using as many 12 volt appliances instead of 120 volt as you wont waste electricity converting up,. look at truckstops and online

[AutumnB]

Looking online and reading comments and prices is kinda crazy. The number of fridge fires is huge. I have a 32 cubic foot fridge at home. To get one half the size is about 5000.00 dollars and comments say it's horrible. The more l think about it the more l realize so what if l add a panel and a battery for just the fridge. There has to be a limit for sanity. So l am saying screw it with 3 way fridges like so many other have. There are a ton of people who took them out and put in a cheap walmart or big box fridge. I can replace a panel and a battery for a hell of a lot less.

[dzl_]

I don't know a ton about lead acid, but based on what I know, I question your intention to use starter batteries.


They are not meant for deep discharge, It might seem cheaper upfront, but when you consider that the usable capacity is much lower than deep cycle batteries, and that the starting batteries are designed short high amp bursts, and normally a ~1-5% depth of discharge. Even if you push that to say 30% depth of discharge, a lot of space and a lot of weight will be devoted to unusable battery capacity (70% in this example), and battery life will suffer. It might seem cheaper but account for shorter time-to-replacement, and the extra batteries you have to buy for the same usable capacity and you will probably find out its not actually cheaper.


Here is a primer (video) on batteries and battery types for the marine industry (very similar needs to skoolies/vehicle based builds)


And here is a whole free E-Book from Victron on batteries and energy

[john61ct]

Yes using Starter batts for deep cycling is just throwing lots of money away.

The best battery value by far is Duracell (actually Deka/East Penn) FLA deep cycle golf cart batteries, 2x6V, around $200 per 200+AH @12V pair from BatteriesPlus or Sam's Club.

NAPA also relabels it here: https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NBP8144 Deka self-labeled also sold at Lowes.

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by AutumnB

I had actually planned on sealed LED lights inside and outside. Much less draw and headaches. As for inverters l currently have 3- 3000 watt sine inverters and a 10,000 watt 110/220 gas generator. The idea of using it for the washer and other short use times is a good idea! I had planned on using it for my pull behind trailer for the air compressor, lights and welding machine.
I hope to keep myself busy with projects over long stops. We really dont plan to be high milers.

like to hear mote about your shop trailer, please

[AutumnB]

Originally Posted by kidharris

like to hear mote about your shop trailer, please

I am a diesel mechanic. Im also into old car projects. I am pretty good at fixing or thinking outside of the box ideas. My thinking is l may schedule work projects along the way with whatever people need help with. Kinda like a way to pay for my gypsy addictions.

[dozr62]

Keep it simple stay with the 12volt system as much as possible. On the 115 ac house current try to keep everything on one side and close to the generator and where you decide to put your 30/50amp power cord

[kidharris]

Originally Posted by AutumnB

I am a diesel mechanic. Im also into old car projects. I am pretty good at fixing or thinking outside of the box ideas. My thinking is l may schedule work projects along the way with whatever people need help with. Kinda like a way to pay for my gypsy addictions.

If you can afford it you may want to look into the welder/genset/air compressor combination machines as offered by all of the big names like Miller, Lincoln, etc as well as a bunch of smaller brands. Used by contractors to solve all of their portable job site power requirements.


One neat, compact, tough, durable, more easily maintained package. No brainer portable shop solution designed by professional engineers for professionals, instead of a "hope it works", strung together DIY s*** show solution like I usually come up with.


Cheapest, new, that I have seen, recently, run upwards of $3500 to $60k+ depending on use, size, fuel, features, brand name, blah blah blah. Used ones pop up on Craigs List occasionally. Same fuel as my bus engine would be my choice if I had my druthers.