Epic failure in electrical work...

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by HamSkoolie

WOW
That's far beyond ignorance and into the criminal neglect arena with that fuse!


I really hate to advocate for more government regulation but caveat emptor doesn't seem to be working to eliminate these shoddy practices.

its one thing to let people build things themselves and screw it up.. but when someone hires a business to do it.. they assume they are getting a safe and fully operational project... so i 100% agree.. there should be some kind of oversight when someone is in business doing this.. or at least some kind of recourse a person can take if they hire a 3rd party inspector to come out and look at the work.. an electrical inspector wouldve caught that in 30 seconds... heck even the guys installing sound systems at my local pro-audio shop wouldve laughed that off the planet..



which by the way before I got my own crimper and learned to use it, thats where i got my crimps done for my heavy 12 volt wiring was my local pro audio shop. they have a press that fits those connectors..



good audio shops are working in 1000s of watts for some of those competition sound systems..

[Touring4]

Lots of good stuff here

On the side, what kind of fuse block was that? I didn’t see it before. Those fuses don’t look resettable either? It looks cleaner than the inline ones.

[rossvtaylor]

Originally Posted by Touring4

Lots of good stuff here

On the side, what kind of fuse block was that? I didn’t see it before. Those fuses don’t look resettable either? It looks cleaner than the inline ones.

Thanks!

That's a Lynx Power by Victron, but with the cover off. The fuses are definitely not resettable.

Here's a link to it:

https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dis...n#pd-nav-image

[Touring4]

Originally Posted by rossvtaylor

Thanks!

That's a Lynx Power by Victron, but with the cover off. The fuses are definitely not resettable.

Here's a link to it:

https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dis...n#pd-nav-image

Thank you!

[flattracker]

I will throw my two cents into the mix:


Should you use soldered connections in your bus?
For some things yes. I would use soldered connections for wiring that carries RF.


For some things crimp is good.


Looking back on my experiences:



Serving eight years in the Air Force, I worked on a lot of aircraft, mostly B52s, F4s, A7, etc. These aircraft were 50s technology and had mostly soldered connections at each connector, but newer electronics had crimped connections. The DC aircraft electrical panel I used in the "old Crown" had crimped connections that attached to circuit breakers with screws. The DC electrical panel I used for parts in the "new Crown" had only crimped connectors attached with screws to circuit breakers and switches. Modern technology uses crimped connections for things that go to space. Old technology that went to space did use soldered connections that were done with absolute minimum solder on connections.

Modern aircraft use crimp connections. The FAA is very strict about construction of aircraft.
Aircraft experience vibration and shock at levels equal and better than what will be experienced in a converted bus. They will experience a range of temperatures equal or more than any skoolie.


My point is if you wish to use soldered connections, go ahead, but crimp on connectors with screws work quite well. When it comes to 240/120 volt AC wiring compression connections are quite OK. The connections to circuit breakers in an electrical panel are compression type. The connections on my solar charge controllers are compression types.


No matter what approach to wiring you use, do it correctly! if you solder connections assure that you use rosin fluxed solder not acid core. Assure that you don't have cold solder joints.


If you use crimp on connections assure they are crimped correctly with the proper tools. When you attach a crimped connector to a terminal with a screw use the correct washer with the terminal and make it tight.



When I opened up my Onan 6.5 DKD generator to re-configure the wiring for two 240/120 VAC output I found a loose connection from the original assembly at Onan and obvious heat damage.


For your battery connections assure that any crimped on terminals on the battery cables were crimped tight with the correct tool. Assure that any hardware used to hold down the cable to the battery terminal is tight.


Loose connections result in resistance at the connection and when high current flows through the connection it will get hot.

[BarnYardCamp]

This has been a very informative thread.
So, thank you to everyone who contributed.
I'm getting ready to install my DC/DC charger.
I'd never heard of an anvil crimper. But I just ordered one last week. Just over $15, should have it soon. My DC/DC charger wire connections will get done correctly.
(All my other 12v connections were done with a hand crimper using solderless connectors. But none of that stuff has the amperage draw that the charger may have)

Safety, safety, safety!

[bowlerae]

Epic Skoolies is running a scam. I paid them $100,000 for a 45 ft coach conversion. They have taken my money and delivered no product. I have spoken to other clients (victims) with similar stories. Life-threatening safety issues plague the projects that they do complete. I sold my home and belonging for my skoolie and now I am walking away with nothing. I am suing them.

[rossvtaylor]

Originally Posted by bowlerae

Epic Skoolies is running a scam. I paid them $100,000 for a 45 ft coach conversion. They have taken my money and delivered no product. I have spoken to other clients (victims) with similar stories. Life-threatening safety issues plague the projects that they do complete. I sold my home and belonging for my skoolie and now I am walking away with nothing. I am suing them.

I think I heard a bit about your dilemma from Jonathan down in Florida...unless there's another similar situation. That's a ton of money. Very sad.

[bowlerae]

Originally Posted by rossvtaylor

I think I heard a bit about your dilemma from Jonathan down in Florida...unless there's another similar situation. That's a ton of money. Very sad.

Sadly, I think you might've heard someone else's story. I'm only just now starting to reach out to people to expose them and I haven't talked to anyone named Jonathan yet. I believe they have several customers that they have scammed.

[rossvtaylor]

Originally Posted by bowlerae

Sadly, I think you might've heard someone else's story. I'm only just now starting to reach out to people to expose them and I haven't talked to anyone named Jonathan yet. I believe they have several customers that they have scammed.

Ah...yes, you're a new story. I sent you a PM with my phone number. I'm no longer doing full conversions, but I'd be happy to talk to you and see if I can connect you to someone good...or at least expose your story.

[rossvtaylor]

I recently found out that Epic Skoolies, which did the work on this bus, has several other customers who are out a bunch of money. Right now, there's a group of us working with 4 identified victims who are facing combined losses of about $250,000. Two of the victims can't get their buses and these poor folks have had their dreams just crushed. They're all tragic, but the most troubling (for me) is the single mom with a wheelchair-bound child who cannot get either her handicapped-capable bus or her money back. She's just crushed...

Some of the folks volunteering their time to support these victims are members of this group, but I'll keep them anonymous. It's great to see the support here.

Remember Lone Star? Well, many of those customers based part of their decision on Lone Star being listed in the #1 spot on the Trail and Summit favorite skoolie conversion company's list. Several of the victims and I reached out to Trail and Summit at the time, including to the author of that list, but they were unresponsive. Well, guess who's in the #1 slot now? Yup, Epic Skoolies in Washington.

Again, we've reached out to Trail and Summit and after none of us got any responses I felt compelled to share this in a video. There are two goals in doing so, really. One is to pressure Epic to make things right with these customers. The second is to alert others to the potential risk of assigning any merit to online rankings.

https://youtu.be/Nara2xbj5H0

[BarnYardCamp]

thanks Ross....eventually, this industry will get enough negative exposure that regulations will be imposed.

[rossvtaylor]

Originally Posted by BarnYardCamp

thanks Ross....eventually, this industry will get enough negative exposure that regulations will be imposed.

I am definitely not one for government regulation...but that's a personal thing. I do, though, strongly support options for voluntary safety inspection (a group of us are working on something to offer in that arena) and I'm a big fan of shining light on the people who are victimizing others. That public pressure can provide some self-corrective actions. I'd much rather have that than government oversight and restrictions. But again, that's my personal opinion and not those of my employer. Oh, I don't have one.

Edit to add some clarification: I don't want the government telling me, you, anyone how they do their build...so long as what's done isn't an articulable danger to someone else. In a case like Epic or Lone Star, actually I think the law already helps the victims because there's a good argument for fraud. Complaints to the AG in Texas brought pressure on Lone Star and I know that AG Fraud complaints are being filed against Epic in Washington State. If someone pays $100K for a build and can't get their bus...and it's part of a demonstrable pattern with other victims...that's fraud, in my eyes. And they should have the money to make things right with the current victims, because Epic recently stated that they're booked out 2 years right now...and they posted that their builds start at $100,000.

[BarnYardCamp]

I'm a firm believer in free markets. (that's why I said regulations will be imposed) Free markets will (eventually) weed out the bad actors. Unfortunately, as we've seen from Lone Star and now Epic....the purge doesn't happen until after some people lose a lot. I'm sure the victims thought that they had done some homework and were dealing with "the best". Maybe if the people/organizations involved with the phony ratings system could also be held liable things would change a bit more quickly.

[rossvtaylor]

Originally Posted by BarnYardCamp

I'm a firm believer in free markets. (that's why I said regulations will be imposed) Free markets will (eventually) weed out the bad actors. Unfortunately, as we've seen from Lone Star and now Epic....the purge doesn't happen until after some people lose a lot. I'm sure the victims thought that they had done some homework and were dealing with "the best". Maybe if the people/organizations involved with the phony ratings system could also be held liable things would change a bit more quickly.

I knew where you stood on this...and I hope you didn't think I felt you were advocating for regs. And yes, if Trail and Summit didn't take money for the #1 ranking then at the very least they've proven themselves to be completely unreliable in their ratings and, probably, negligent by refusing to respond to legitimate notifications of problems with their top listing. We're working to call them out and get that fixed...but, unfortunately, pay-to-play is rampant in all media.

[PorchDog]

I have no idea, but I suspect that these folks may be having a cash flow crunch similar to what can happen in conventional housing, where a contractor actually lost money on a house, but uses the advance from the next house to cover the loss from the first one, and this practice continues until the music stops, and some folks really get messed up.

Maybe they paid themselves too much, or didn't accurately count their costs of doing business, or who knows-- but the long term of this type of operation is the same-- everything is OK at first, but over time the cash flow hole they are digging get's unmanageable, and the sky falls, capturing a bunch of folks in a trap. The dangerous thinking here is that things will get better, we will work ourselves out of this, but the reality is it never happens...(It is very easy to do this...)

Getting blood out of a turnip can be a hard thing to do-- and then you add less than stellar work quality on top of all that...maybe as a cost saving measure...

Just my 3 cents....

[DeMac]

Originally Posted by BarnYardCamp

I'm a firm believer in free markets. (that's why I said regulations will be imposed) Free markets will (eventually) weed out the bad actors. Unfortunately, as we've seen from Lone Star and now Epic....the purge doesn't happen until after some people lose a lot. I'm sure the victims thought that they had done some homework and were dealing with "the best". Maybe if the people/organizations involved with the phony ratings system could also be held liable things would change a bit more quickly.

------------------
🤔 I have repeatedly wondered why our skoolie community doesn't discuss RVIA or similar safety inspections. While I'm sure these services are not for every skoolie builder, an owner who pays $50k to a business for construction, might also consider paying a $500 inspection fee.

Most homebuyers hire a home inspector, for discovery/liability, before closing on a home, with or without a mortgage.

Prospective negative experiences might be remedied with one additional line in the contract:

"..Remaining Funds Payable Pending a Safety Inspection by an Owner Paid & Authorized RVIA Inspector."


The aforementioned agreement may even cause a skoolie owner's offer to be declined by potential scammers, or businesses concerned with contractual litigation. Effectively, steering our communtity away from sketchy or unconfident installers.

[rossvtaylor]

Originally Posted by DeMac

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🤔 I have repeatedly wondered why our skoolie community doesn't discuss RVIA or similar safety inspections. While I'm sure these services are not for every skoolie builder, an owner who pays $50k to a business for construction, might also consider paying a $500 inspection fee.

I'm working on it! Actually, I am working on it with a group of trusted people from industry. I've been so frustrated...and feel so bad for some of the victims...that my wife and I have invested a fair bit over the past 6 months working towards exactly such a program. I'm awaiting the final version of the inspection app (tablet based, with photos, stored on an accessible server), some final website touches, and the aluminum placards. I'll be sharing the full details here on Skoolie.net, first, as soon as it's launchable...a real (not) word.

The program is the CVSI...Conversion Vehicle Safety Institute. The website isn't open yet, but it's at CVSinstitute.com and the toll-free number is 888-818-CVSI. Email is info@cvsinstitute.com

I'm working on a recognized accreditation and talking with some insurers, to arrange either a discount or insurance (if they don't insure now...but might consider it with the documented inspection). We plan to work with RV-friendly lenders, too.

We hoped to have it ready about 4 weeks ago...but we're still about 2 weeks from launch. If anyone here is interested in doing inspections, for a rate you set, please shoot me an email at the address above.

[Tejon7]

Ross, can I sign up to be CVSI fanboy #1? I dislike mandates as much as anyone, and I think that self-regulated standards are the best (only?) way that we as a community will stay insurable yet still maintain some independence. I'd like to help in whatever way I can.

Edit: if there's a "volunteer assistant to the regional manager, Western Montana division" position available, I'd like to call dibs.

[BarnYardCamp]

Originally Posted by PorchDog

Just my 3 cents....

Dang, inflation everywhere you look!