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Old 07-14-2019, 04:39 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by HazMatt View Post
It's getting closer to the time I can move out of the ghetto!
Well... to abandon my ghetto setup of heavy-duty extension cords snaked thru the door and strewn in coils about the interior. Finally hooking up a series circuits terminating in kosher outlets, all attached to a b'gawd breaker box.
You don't know how hard it was to resist posting Eric Cartman singing "In The Ghetto"... *smacks hand* Nope... *smacks hand again* Go to your room, young man!

The setup you refer to served me quite well when I used my B as a security shed, though it doesn't lend itself to motion... I applaud you for undertaking this task... As Obi-Won would say, "You've just taken your first step into a larger world."

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Old 07-14-2019, 05:33 PM   #22
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My bus has been wired for many years now. DC is stranded, AC is solid. I have been wiring automotive as well as household for over 50 years. None of the race car and specialty high performance wiring ever failed. I was an electrical troubleshooter for many years. None of the wiring I did as an Naval air electrician ever failed, as far as I know.

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Think about this: All automotive and bus wiring from the factory is stranded. It is that way for a reason!
I was responding to the post that stated
Quote:
Solid wire should NEVER be used in a mobile environment
The RV industry has been using solid wire in the "house" part, put in by unskilled workers, with relatively few problems caused by the fact that they use solid wire, practically from the beginning.

If solid copper is such a "bad" idea in a mobile setting, explain how tubing made of copper,air, gasoline, diesel and propane has been in use, with relatively few problems,in the automotive industry for so many years.
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Old 07-14-2019, 07:39 PM   #23
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The RV industry has been using solid wire in the "house" part, put in by unskilled workers, with relatively few problems caused by the fact that they use solid wire, practically from the beginning.
If it's good enough for the factory, it's not good enough. The factory is only concerned with getting it to the end of the warranty as cheaply as possible. They don't care if it breaks 28 seconds after that because it's not their problem. Romex is just the fastest and easiest for the unskilled line workers to install, both from a wiring aspect, as well as they can simply backstab the devices (something an electrician worth his rate would never do) to save time.

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If solid copper is such a "bad" idea in a mobile setting, explain how tubing made of copper,air, gasoline, diesel and propane has been in use, with relatively few problems,in the automotive industry for so many years.
I don't recall ever seeing any application for copper tubing in the automotive industry. All the hard lines I've ever seen are steel/stainless, and those are never routed in any manner in which they can flex.
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Old 07-14-2019, 09:49 PM   #24
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New Member. I'd have to agree with Somewhere here. Entirely. Take a look at, for example, the oil pressure gauge lines from way back--all Cu. In later model vehicles --the first with A/C, the entire coils were Cu as were the equilibration lines. Propane has been and still is delivered via Cu piping in present day RV's. I'd have to guess that not seeing Cu as much any more has to do with the fact that steel or Al lines have become cheaper to produce than Cu lines ---though the warranty exposure remains the same--and explains their use.
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Old 07-14-2019, 10:22 PM   #25
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While its still a free country and we can all use whatever materials we want in bringing a bus back to life and into another form; there are valid safety reasons to use certain types of materials for various functions and applications.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, there is no NEC applicable to follow to properly/safely wire up a bus for private/non school use.

I'm not an electrician however, I know that there are reasons for using stranded wire over solid that make excellent sense. For those reasons, I will only use stranded wiring to build out my bus be it for AC and/or DC uses.

Perhaps that reasoning could be labeled "overkill" by some however, I don't care if solid wire has been used successfully by others with no failure, yet.

Most all manufacturing plants use stranded wiring to wire up all of their various machines that move, even if only 6 inches in any direction. That is for safety, and there probably is code that requires it. Solid wiring in the same environment won't stand the test of time.

I hope this makes sense to those who still feel recommending solid wiring to others to safely use in building out a bus is a good idea.
If not...I tried...Good luck to you and I hope you never experience an electrical issue by using weaker solid over stranded!
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Old 07-14-2019, 11:30 PM   #26
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Hubbard Bus - Great responses. You may not be an electrician but you've clearly done your homework.... And I am a BIG fan of stranded!
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Old 07-15-2019, 08:45 AM   #27
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I hope this makes sense to those who still feel recommending solid wiring to others to safely use in building out a bus is a good idea.
If not...I tried...Good luck to you and I hope you never experience an electrical issue by using weaker solid over stranded!
I am NOT recommending anything to anybody. I am simply making observations observations based on about 50 years of doing successful wiring in various moving vehicle projects. My original post was in response to the statement "Solid wire should NEVER be used in a mobile environment"

Quote:
Most all manufacturing plants use stranded wiring to wire up all of their various machines that move, even if only 6 inches in any direction. That is for safety, and there probably is code that requires it. Solid wiring in the same environment won't stand the test of time.
You obviously haven't read/comprehended one of my earlier posts that said PROPER securement. If you have an electrical device moving anywhere near 6 inches in your "house" build, you have more than electrical problems. If your solid wire wiring moves at all, you haven't done your job correctly.

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I don't recall ever seeing any application for copper tubing in the automotive industry. All the hard lines I've ever seen are steel/stainless, and those are never routed in any manner in which they can flex.
I don't know how old you are or how long you have been working on cars/trucks. I can assure you copper has been in use for a long time and, as Jack pointed out for many applications. My 91 bus has copper air lines as did my first semi. I had far less problems with the air lines on that truck,none of which were due to stress fatigue, than I did with the last one that had all DOT plastic air lines. That first truck had a million miles on it when I traded it.

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If it's good enough for the factory, it's not good enough. The factory is only concerned with getting it to the end of the warranty as cheaply as possible. They don't care if it breaks 28 seconds after that because it's not their problem.
Even though this may seem like the case these days. I still don't believe it to be generally true. And it certainly wasn't true more than 20 years ago. For those who don't know,before the widespread use of inverters, many RV fixtures were dual wired 12VDC/110VAC. The AC part was solid wire.

I still maintain that stranded wire improperly terminated to any AC fixture is more likely to be a problem than a properly secured solid wire using the standard hooked wire under a screw.
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Old 07-15-2019, 10:42 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by somewhereinusa View Post
I still maintain that stranded wire improperly terminated to any AC fixture is more likely to be a problem than a properly secured solid wire using the standard hooked wire under a screw.
Not from an experiential but rather a theoretical viewpoint, this seems to be an important point. I assume the problems you're alluding to could include reduced ampacity (broken/cut strands), shorts (broken/stray strands), and possibly connections that loosen over time? Am I right on any or all of the above points? Anything I missed?

How would you mitigate these problems using stranded? Pig-tail to solid? Twisting & tinning? Something else?
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Old 07-15-2019, 11:38 AM   #29
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Not from an experiential but rather a theoretical viewpoint, this seems to be an important point. I assume the problems you're alluding to could include reduced ampacity (broken/cut strands), shorts (broken/stray strands), and possibly connections that loosen over time? Am I right on any or all of the above points?
Pretty much all of the above, all of which will produce heat, which then melts insulation, then more shorts. I can't tell how many times I have found stranded wire twisted then just stuck under the screw head without even trying to make a "J".

Whenever I use stranded wire that terminates with a screw attachment I crimp a terminal end to the wire. I prefer O's instead of U's for the terminal end. If you feel you absolutely must, you can solder after crimping but, I have never thought this to be necessary. Never solder the end then crimp, if that connection should get hot, the solder will melt out and the crimp won't hold it. I like the wire ends with the heat shrink insulation already on it or, bare wire ends with the heat shrink that has the glue inside.

Also very important secure your wires often enough that there is no chance for movement.
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Old 07-15-2019, 11:45 AM   #30
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As a reference point on stranded vs. solid: I've worked in the field of industrial automation for 30 years. I've designed countless industrial electrical systems, and serviced countless others. In those 30 years I have virtually NEVER seen solid wire used, even though these are fixed installations. The only couple of times I've seen solid wire in an industrial environment is when some total hack wired the machine. Properly terminated stranded wire is fantastic, and my choice by far. And yet, with that said I live in a fifth wheel that is 15 years old where all of the 115V wiring from the factor is solid romax, and it's been just fine. While there is a case that solid wire might carry more current than a similar sized stranded wire, the official NEC ampacity charts used by electricians and engineers everywhere does not distinguish between the two. Bottom line: Done properly either solid or stranded will work well. I feel like it's probably time for people to move on from this subject and pursue whatever flavor of wire gets your fancy....
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Old 07-15-2019, 12:05 PM   #31
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I love this thread. Thanks for all the great input from everyone!
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Old 07-18-2019, 09:13 AM   #32
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I do all my wiring in marine rated stranded wire. Marine wire is always stranded for good reason just like aircraft are and corrosion and reduced ampacity are eliminated for a long time of heavy use. Wire it as you like though because it's a skoolie. Nobody expects it to be more than hobby construction anyways. These thread always speak to that.
I figure 25 years of hard use on any build so I do it different than most.
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