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11-12-2021, 02:22 PM
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#21
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Again, an issue with no details. What kind of temps are we afraid of? Any ideas how hot it gets in the engine compartment? How hot is too hot for the genny? With out these answers, we're just wasting our time pontificating. I bought a handful of these cheap digital thermometers. Have one installed in the engine bay of the Miata just to monitor temps. Headlights up drop the bay temp by 20*. Put one in your bay and drive around to see what temps it gets.Personally I don't beleive that bay sees 200* , and 200* should not be a concern to the genny, just saying. If there's room, I would have no issue putting it there.
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
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11-12-2021, 02:24 PM
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#22
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zork
Open <> Cooling. Something has to take the heat away, that's why radiators in water-cooled engines sit in front of or behind fans. The heat won't go away on its own quickly enough. If the airflow in the engine compartment is OK then it won't be a problem, but if you are not sure, a secondary fan would ensure it does happen that way.
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The fan is only for slow or stopped running. The fan won't pull anywhere near what flows through the radiator at speed.
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
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11-12-2021, 02:31 PM
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#23
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: MA
Posts: 354
Year: 2008
Coachwork: IH
Chassis: IC SB CE-300 39ft
Engine: DT466 w/Allison 2500
Rated Cap: 29500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc
The fan is only for slow or stopped running. The fan won't pull anywhere near what flows through the radiator at speed.
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Completely incorrect. I have a radiator on my BMW K1100LT touring bike and it has a fan. It doesn't care whether I am running or stopped or slow. It only cares about the coolant temperature and it WILL run on a hot day even if I am driving. On my bus the radiator fan is belt-driven. You think the belt has a clue what the rest of the bus is doing?
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11-12-2021, 02:34 PM
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#24
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: MA
Posts: 354
Year: 2008
Coachwork: IH
Chassis: IC SB CE-300 39ft
Engine: DT466 w/Allison 2500
Rated Cap: 29500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc
Again, an issue with no details. What kind of temps are we afraid of? Any ideas how hot it gets in the engine compartment? How hot is too hot for the genny? With out these answers, we're just wasting our time pontificating. I bought a handful of these cheap digital thermometers. Have one installed in the engine bay of the Miata just to monitor temps. Headlights up drop the bay temp by 20*. Put one in your bay and drive around to see what temps it gets.Personally I don't beleive that bay sees 200* , and 200* should not be a concern to the genny, just saying. If there's room, I would have no issue putting it there.
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Where'd you pull that "200*" from?
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11-12-2021, 03:11 PM
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#25
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zork
Where'd you pull that "200*" from?
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How hot does it get in your bay? How hot is too hot for a genny? Those are the only relevant questions to answer.
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
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11-12-2021, 03:14 PM
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#26
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: MA
Posts: 354
Year: 2008
Coachwork: IH
Chassis: IC SB CE-300 39ft
Engine: DT466 w/Allison 2500
Rated Cap: 29500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc
How hot does it get in your bay? How hot is too hot for a genny? Those are the only relevant questions to answer.
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So we have an answer, and the answer is "pot, kettle, black".
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11-12-2021, 04:55 PM
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#27
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,775
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Let's try to foster community here...
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11-12-2021, 04:58 PM
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#28
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: MA
Posts: 354
Year: 2008
Coachwork: IH
Chassis: IC SB CE-300 39ft
Engine: DT466 w/Allison 2500
Rated Cap: 29500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct
Let's try to foster community here...
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Better yet, let's try to foster the exchange of information without bringing up someone's irrelevant religious beliefs. One pope is more than enough.
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11-12-2021, 08:48 PM
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#29
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,775
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No idea what any of that refers to
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11-12-2021, 08:51 PM
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#30
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: MA
Posts: 354
Year: 2008
Coachwork: IH
Chassis: IC SB CE-300 39ft
Engine: DT466 w/Allison 2500
Rated Cap: 29500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct
No idea what any of that refers to
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Seriously? You don't know where the word "pontificate" comes from?
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11-12-2021, 10:21 PM
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#31
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Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 106
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Engine: Cat 3116
Rated Cap: 84
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Wow, this got derailed! Y’all’s ADHD is worse than mine! lol
I got the generator today, it runs great on propane.
If anyone is curious, this generator has a built in valve to shut off flow if it stops running for any reason. It also came with a big regulator (and hose) that connects directly to a propane tank, it reduces pressure to the appropriate 11” of w.c. That means that It’ll be able to be hooked up to the propane pipe I already have installed!
I’ll most likely be really running it for a bit tomorrow and will get some running temps of the generator.
I was already planning on doing this before I installed it in the Rear Engine Compartment area.
The Bus Engine compartment doesn’t exceed 220 degrees in the hottest area by the radiator.
The opposite side (where the genny would sit) gets approximately 20 degrees above ambient temperatures.
That’s at a high idle. (Not going to break down right now to go for a drive.)
Any Engine compartment is going to be designed to keep temperatures down as far below 250F as possible, that’s the upper limit for all the plastic you find in there.
I’m thoughtful about the heat emanating off the generator itself though… , would it be enough to cook the wiring in the electrical box? I have space to move the box, if that’s the only obstacle to this plan!
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11-12-2021, 10:26 PM
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#32
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: MA
Posts: 354
Year: 2008
Coachwork: IH
Chassis: IC SB CE-300 39ft
Engine: DT466 w/Allison 2500
Rated Cap: 29500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlingonFiero
Wow, this got derailed! Y’all’s ADHD is worse than mine! lol
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Ain't that the truth! It gets... SQUIRREL!
Quote:
I got the generator today, it runs great on propane.
If anyone is curious, this generator has a built in valve to shut off flow if it stops running for any reason. It also came with a big regulator (and hose) that connects directly to a propane tank, it reduces pressure to the appropriate 11” of w.c. That means that It’ll be able to be hooked up to the propane pipe I already have installed!
I’ll most likely be really running it for a bit tomorrow and will get some running temps of the generator.
I was already planning on doing this before I installed it in the Rear Engine Compartment area.
The Bus Engine compartment doesn’t exceed 220 degrees in the hottest area by the radiator.
The opposite side (where the genny would sit) gets approximately 20 degrees above ambient temperatures.
That’s at a high idle. (Not going to break down right now to go for a drive.)
Any Engine compartment is going to be designed to keep temperatures down as far below 250F as possible, that’s the upper limit for all the plastic you find in there.
I’m thoughtful about the heat emanating off the generator itself though… , would it be enough to cook the wiring in the electrical box? I have space to move the box, if that’s the only obstacle to this plan!
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From what you have said so far, I think you will be fine. If the generator could possibly cook wiring under normal operation, the company's lawyers wouldn't let it out the door, let alone in customer's hands.
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11-13-2021, 08:30 AM
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#33
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Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 106
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Engine: Cat 3116
Rated Cap: 84
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And , it just occurred to me, the generator has its 4gallon tank of gasoline just inches above the engine.
It really must not get that hot!
I’ll do some more reading on Google and such, and I’ll post back here what I ended up doing.
I really want the generator installed back there, but not if it compromises safety!!
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11-13-2021, 08:48 AM
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#34
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,829
Coachwork: Integrated Coach Corp.
Chassis: RE-300 42ft
Engine: 466ci
Rated Cap: 90
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Recalled - Westinghouse Dual Fuel Portable Generators (4 Models) Due to Fire Hazard
These two separate recalls (2020 and 2017) from the Consumer Product Safety Commision are good examples of
'We don't know what we don't know', yet.
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2020/MW...to-Fire-Hazard
https://www.cpsc.gov/zhT-CN/Recalls/...to-fire-hazard
MWE Investments Recalls Westinghouse (Dual Fuel) Portable Generators Due to Fire Hazard
Preheated fuel ignites much easier than cold fuel. The money saved on the cheap generator could be applied to an accidental death/dismemberment policy. Might support motive, though.
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11-13-2021, 09:26 AM
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#35
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 3,829
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A simple box fan installed to force the hot air out of the top of the compartment would suffice for most ventilation IMO.
The issue isn't whether it will or won't be okay at 250 in there, it's how much heat will be radiating into the cabin at that temp. Anything above ambient inside there will be different from normal with the engine off. You seem to have plenty of open space for ventilation, throw in a cheap fan for good measure. If you really want to be tech savvy, you can add a controller to it so that it shuts off and on based off of compartment temp.
FWIW, as volatile as gasoline is, I wouldn't want it stored in the same area as the running engine. Open frame generators are given a pass because they're typically ran in an open environment.
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11-13-2021, 10:44 AM
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#36
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Gasoline flashpoint is 536*F
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
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11-13-2021, 01:36 PM
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#37
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 3,829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc
Gasoline flashpoint is 536*F
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No it's not. If that was the case, it would never burn in an engine. Gasoline's flashpoint is well below 0. You're thinking of the auto-ignition temperature, which is the point gasoline will start on fire all on it's own, no spark required.
Anything over the flashpoint and gasoline will begin to vaporize/evaporate. The higher you go, the faster it does so. Get it near 100°F at atmospheric pressure and it will do so pretty rapidly. Go spill some on a sunny summer day and see it for yourself.
And that's all for a generic gasoline. Pump gas is comprised of many different chemicals, all of which have their own vapor, flash, and autoignition point. Avgas has different properties, even the various grades at the pump will differ.
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11-15-2021, 07:48 PM
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#38
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Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 106
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Engine: Cat 3116
Rated Cap: 84
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Howdy All!
Finally had to run the generator again.
Need more solar panels!!!
Got some temps after running it for about 2 hours in the desert sun.
The muffler is the hottest at part, of course, at 450F. About two inches away is a black piece of metal framework, it was a lovely 120F.
Most of the generator itself was right at that 120F temps.
The underside of the fuel tank (about 2-3 inches above the generator heat and gas engine) was about 100F. The top of the tank was roughly 90F.
Just F.Y.I. !
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11-16-2021, 12:23 AM
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#39
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,423
Year: 1990
Coachwork: Crown, integral. (With 2kW of tiltable solar)
Chassis: Crown Supercoach II (rear engine)
Engine: Detroit 6V92TAC, DDEC 2, Jake brake, Allison HT740
Rated Cap: 37,400 lbs GVWR
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Anything you put inside the engine room will get really dirty from all the air being blown through it by the radiator fan. If (when?) that dirt gets inside the generator's alternator it won't do it any good; those alternators can draw in air for their cooling.
Adding gasoline and/or propane to what is already a very hot space just doesn't seem a smart idea to me. Is there absolutely no other space anywhere under the floor? Get imaginative! I mounted my Champion 3500W generator in the empty space between my door and front wheel, then it's easy to get to if I need, and it's far enough away from the bedroom that I hardly hear it from there. It's on a slide-out mount for easy access, and the exhaust pipe to the driver's side telescopes when the generator is partially pulled out to run.
John
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11-16-2021, 08:49 AM
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#40
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 3,829
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Just out of curiousity, the genny in question is dual fuel right? Is gasoline even required for it, or can it run solely off propane? Will you even have gas in the tank?
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