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Old 03-23-2017, 04:30 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Yeah, the left one goes three or four swipes and stops when I push the washer button on the right side. Engine can be running or not for this anomaly.
The washer fluid was controlled individually until this gremlin.
When I got the bus I could use the wipers independently of one another in all aspects of their operation. Only thing not right from the get-go was the intermittent function of the right side.
Got my fuel siphoned out and ran out of fuel last thurs, and since the day after that the wipers have been acting crazy. They did it once or twice randomly before. Probably completely unrelated, but I'm just trying to give you all the info I can come up with.
The only thing I was wrong about was the wash function. Both buttons DID make both wipers squirt.
The engine running or not was referring to both wipers coming on when pushing WASH.
Understand??
Originally, I showed Chris how the engine HAD to be RUNNING for the right wiper motor to come on. It was the same amount of time. The bus would crank up, and about 30-45 secs later the right wiper would come on and the only thing that would make that stop would be unplugging the motor or turning off the bus.
Sorry if I seem like I'm contradicting myself.
I'm about ready to pawn it off on CL or take it to a professional.
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Old 03-23-2017, 04:33 PM   #182
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I'll disconnect the batteries and check them tomorrow.
They certainly seem hellaciously strong and hold a charge real well, though.
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Old 03-23-2017, 04:39 PM   #183
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blackjohn - my carpenter bus has the complete simplistic set of wipers on it.

2 switches 2 wipers and external delay units.

1 wash switch... wash switch never turns on any wipers just sprays water at the glass..

I wont have time to take the dash apart in the bluebird tonight, but I intend to go testing its setup which is single switch 2 wipers... and I can track down exactly which signal from the cole hearsey switch goes to which motor...

and then we have some ammo to match it up against what is in CB's bus and see if its something as easy as a bad terminal not making contact, etc..

I need to take apart the dash on the bluebird anyway to install a cigaratte plug and USB charging ports..

-Christopher
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Old 03-23-2017, 10:35 PM   #184
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I emailed the instructor at my local tech school that has a diesel program. Told him what I'm doing, told him I have two buses and need someone to do work and service occasionally. He put me in touch with a former student who does mobile repair locally. I may have to give him a call and have him come by.
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Old 03-24-2017, 09:57 AM   #185
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what a cool idea... always good to find the small local guys.. they are usually upfront and dont have commissions or high overhead like a dealer does.
-Christopher
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:02 AM   #186
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"The only thing I was wrong about was the wash function. Both buttons DID make both wipers squirt.
The engine running or not was referring to both wipers coming on when pushing WASH.
Understand?"

The mention of the wipers coming on refers to the motor running, not the pump. This is why the wording and how you relate problems verbally can really complicate the issue at hand.
I only know on my end what I read or see from you to formulate a diagnosis.
If that bus were to be sold as is it's not worth much that way. The new owner will have to get it fixed at substantial cost. He would not get it licensed or insured either in that state, so I suggest you get educated about this and fix it.
Many folks here in the forum will eventually have these problems with used buses so it is a benefit to all that you see this through.

Perhaps you could do a quick study in dc current to get some knowledge and terminology down pat.
So far throwing new parts on has done nothing but cost you money. You don't seem to want to accept my thinking in troubleshooting this. Why I have no idea..you asked for help and I offered but you have to take this back and through the basics to solve it.
How many hours have been spent on this by many people now and what would that advice have cost you from what you say is a professional?
Christopher knows what he's doing, others too, and myself, I have 50 years experience and a resume that would blow your mind. Yet you won't do the simple things I have asked.
Time to get it together man and have some faith in what people are trying to tell you.
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:05 AM   #187
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My Bb has 2 switches , two motors and one pump.
That circuitry is not rocket science.
You have to figure out the circuit from the source through the harness to the problem.
Done.
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:11 AM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJohn View Post
"The only thing I was wrong about was the wash function. Both buttons DID make both wipers squirt.
The engine running or not was referring to both wipers coming on when pushing WASH.
Understand?"

The mention of the wipers coming on refers to the motor running, not the pump. This is why the wording and how you relate problems verbally can really complicate the issue at hand.
I only know on my end what I read or see from you to formulate a diagnosis.
If that bus were to be sold as is it's not worth much that way. The new owner will have to get it fixed at substantial cost. He would not get it licensed or insured either in that state, so I suggest you get educated about this and fix it.
Many folks here in the forum will eventually have these problems with used buses so it is a benefit to all that you see this through.

Perhaps you could do a quick study in dc current to get some knowledge and terminology down pat.
So far throwing new parts on has done nothing but cost you money. You don't seem to want to accept my thinking in troubleshooting this. Why I have no idea..you asked for help and I offered but you have to take this back and through the basics to solve it.
How many hours have been spent on this by many people now and what would that advice have cost you from what you say is a professional?
Christopher knows what he's doing, others too, and myself, I have 50 years experience and a resume that would blow your mind. Yet you won't do the simple things I have asked.
Time to get it together man and have some faith in what people are trying to tell you.
john - i think you have to realize that not all people grasp electrical things the same way.. what sounds simple to you or me using a meter and backprobing connectors or checking continuity all the way through doesnt necessarily translate the same to someone else...

people go to school for months and years to understand this stuff.. some brains work better visually and mechanically than they do with words on a screen trying to translate into what you are looking for on the bus itself...

I agree many forum members have, do and will have electrical issues.. but theres also a time when someone should be allowed to admit it is not something they want to tackle themselves..

everyone has a different skill level... EC will do anything we tell him, but it has t obe absolutely specific on what n eeds to be tried as he has not the experience in troubleshooting electrical.. backfeeding and diodes and stuff are more than likely just foreign words...

the internet lacks in real diagrams as ive been googling for them alot.. i had hope to find a wiring diagram online for a very similar setup so we could pinpoint exactly which terminals to place the meter and what should be seen on the screen.. because its visual.. and that makes a owrld of difference over words on a screen.
-Christopher
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:17 AM   #189
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That's an observation, not what the real story is. Test them and check them as I said and charge the new ones and install.
You ask why? Do you understand battery construction and issues at all?

If you are gonna drive/own one of these or any vehicle, you gotta get to know this unless you got very deep pockets.
I drive a Suburban daily. Had no issues until it rained one day. No wipers came on but pulled off the road, my only choice. Rain quit, forgot about it all for awhile.
So then, I'd give the wipers a delayed sweep from time to time in a light rain.
That worked fine but they wouldn't park them selves properly if at all.
Being this vehicle had one battery it turned out to be bad without any noticeable symptoms or than in the wipers. Changed battery out and problem disappeared to this day.
One cell failing caused this in the wiper circuit. Voltage low or surging. So maybe I do have a clue and am on the right track with yours but you don't get it.
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:28 AM   #190
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How much more specific can I be in asking that grounds are clean, test battery voltage and I was hopefully waiting for you and him to find the power source for this mess.
I get that all people are not experienced but my instructions have not been technical. I have been trying to get a sense of what the condition of the whole circuit is. I don't expect him to understand backfeeds, or relays, Maybe a diode if he had looked at the definition of one.
A simple report on battery voltage from the beginning some time ago and again yesterday because it had not been done.
A pro as he calls it will have to do the same thing I am doing but I think reading battery voltage is within his wheelhouse, no?
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Old 03-24-2017, 12:14 PM   #191
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I'd still double or triple my money if I sold it today. Which I'm not. KEEPING this bus. For SURE.
But I can't be troubling Chris with this any more, he's a busy guy who makes way better money than I can even offer for his time.
My only option right now (it seems) is to get a professional and try to find out why such a simple system is being so difficult. If I have to go this route, the thread will certainly be updated so no loss of info for any others... You dig?

I'm just not getting it at all, and I'm very appreciative of all the help, but I don't want to be a burden and I'm obviously making you a little angry or something.

I'm willing to try ANYTHING to fix my bus so I can proceed with other, more fun aspects of owning it. Like fixing the rust spots and painting it. And putting a stereo in it. Summer is here, and I really had a lot of plans for this bus but I don't think I can fully enjoy it with electrical gremlins.
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Old 03-24-2017, 12:30 PM   #192
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I'd still double or triple my money if I sold it today. Which I'm not. KEEPING this bus. For SURE.
But I can't be troubling Chris with this any more, he's a busy guy who makes way better money than I can even offer for his time.
My only option right now (it seems) is to get a professional and try to find out why such a simple system is being so difficult. If I have to go this route, the thread will certainly be updated so no loss of info for any others... You dig?

I'm just not getting it at all, and I'm very appreciative of all the help, but I don't want to be a burden and I'm obviously making you a little angry or something.

I'm willing to try ANYTHING to fix my bus so I can proceed with other, more fun aspects of owning it. Like fixing the rust spots and painting it. And putting a stereo in it. Summer is here, and I really had a lot of plans for this bus but I don't think I can fully enjoy it with electrical gremlins.
not to worry on my part, fixing the bus is only part of it.. its also cool to hang out, talk ideas, chill, and learn.. so I dont consider it a burden at all to work on this.. and as all projects i get into, its really because i want to, not for pay or obligation.. I like to help out where i can, and as well, enjoy the time away from my work.. which otherwise i spend 7 days a week on...

-Christopher
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Old 03-24-2017, 01:07 PM   #193
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Boy, I wish I could be down there helping you guys. It would be a learning experience for sure.

I have a couple of unsolicited opinions, which you may discard immediately. The first is that you might want to be wary of taking it to a "professional", who might or might not know any more about this than you do. Especially the factory authorized types. If you walk in and tell your story honestly and completely, they will have dollar signs in their eyes. They'll be thinking "I can take all the billable time I want to, replace every part in sight, and just tell the guy he screwed up himself." That kid with the mobile indie shop may very well not be that sort, but he'll start in where you did - from first principles.

My second thought is that if it were me, I would have dyked out all the existing wiring, pulled all new wires in from the 12V source (ckt breaker or fuse) onward, and been essentially re-creating that part of the harness you're dealing with. My experience with chasing gremlins out of internally combusted devices is that a LOT of mischief goes on inside wire bundles, especially the ones inside looms or tubing.

Good luck. Keep calm and chive on. One day this will be a funny story you tell your kids.
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Old 03-24-2017, 01:23 PM   #194
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Sounds like Chris and I are gonna have another go at it this weekend. I just know I've reached my technical limits and don't want to be too needy when it comes to asking help from friends who are so busy and successful. I hate being a burden, and I hate being beaten by a machine.
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Old 03-24-2017, 01:35 PM   #195
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Sounds like Chris and I are gonna have another go at it this weekend. I just know I've reached my technical limits and don't want to be too needy when it comes to asking help from friends who are so busy and successful. I hate being a burden, and I hate being beaten by a machine.
Vaya con Dios. There will be a time that you can help him. Keep humming "Lean On Me" by Bill Withers.
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Old 03-24-2017, 01:43 PM   #196
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"I'm willing to try ANYTHING to fix my bus,"

Then why not try what I am suggesting, no special skills needed at all? Dig it?
The real joy of owning a bus is when you climb in to trip in it and it performs flawlessly because you decided to make it that way. And you can if I can or chris can.
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Old 03-24-2017, 01:47 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
not to worry on my part, fixing the bus is only part of it.. its also cool to hang out, talk ideas, chill, and learn.. so I dont consider it a burden at all to work on this.. and as all projects i get into, its really because i want to, not for pay or obligation.. I like to help out where i can, and as well, enjoy the time away from my work.. which otherwise i spend 7 days a week on...

-Christopher
Ditto for me chris. Was only trying to offer what I know from a distance,
hoping everyone can gain from searching out this type of electrical problem.
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Old 03-24-2017, 01:54 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-fox View Post
Boy, I wish I could be down there helping you guys. It would be a learning experience for sure.

I have a couple of unsolicited opinions, which you may discard immediately. The first is that you might want to be wary of taking it to a "professional", who might or might not know any more about this than you do. Especially the factory authorized types. If you walk in and tell your story honestly and completely, they will have dollar signs in their eyes. They'll be thinking "I can take all the billable time I want to, replace every part in sight, and just tell the guy he screwed up himself." That kid with the mobile indie shop may very well not be that sort, but he'll start in where you did - from first principles.

My second thought is that if it were me, I would have dyked out all the existing wiring, pulled all new wires in from the 12V source (ckt breaker or fuse) onward, and been essentially re-creating that part of the harness you're dealing with. My experience with chasing gremlins out of internally combusted devices is that a LOT of mischief goes on inside wire bundles, especially the ones inside looms or tubing.

Good luck. Keep calm and chive on. One day this will be a funny story you tell your kids.
Bang on dan-fox. parts didn't magically help so being the source hasn't been discovered, time for a rip out and rewire. Agree very much that this is a harness issue now but not being there won't help these boys. Maybe the two of them can track the source down.
Unbelievable how this got complicated to the point of frustration.
One bad termination of a wire or mistaken termination or sounds like a diode in the wrong position blocking voltage therefore no reading as chris was looking at.
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Old 03-24-2017, 02:35 PM   #199
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who knows if they put a Diode in the harness somewhere.. those are usually pretty easy to find though.. disconnecting at both ends and reversing the leads on a standard ohm meter will USUALLY detect if one exists.. ECCB's meter is a good one, so it may actually have a diode mode on it that we can use to see if one exists in the harness..

and yeah all it would take is that one signal wire not making it back to the switch or motor and we would have this issue...

when I was testing, I was testing leads on the motor itself.. at the solder joints where they go into the motor assembly.. hoping to elininate the bad connection theory..

the one flaw in that is that connectors do have to be unplugged to continuity test wires which introduces the possibiliity of a bad connection...

I believe I have some harness cable actually in my bus.. 5 or 6 wire.. I'll have to check.. I used it when I added A/C to the other bus..

I also like the idea of testing for battery voltage at the batteries and up at the power point of the wiper switch...

i dont remember the exact voltage I saw at the motor itself but do remember it was above 12.0 .. I realize 12.6 is standing charge, however we had been messing around alot with the bus turned off so its feasible to think we dropped off the top charge of the batteries.. but will def voltage re-check.

got some things to rock N roll on. plus the bluebird to use as a reference..
-Christopher
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Old 03-24-2017, 02:58 PM   #200
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I worked for many years repairing various equipment. More than a few times I got stumped when I suspected a particular part was bad so I replaced it with a new part and the problem was not resolved. I made the assumption that the part I replaced was not the problem. Then got stumped because the symptoms indicated that it was that part.

After much tail chasing I found that I had replaced an old failed part with a brand new failed part.

Odds are against it but it does happen from time to time.

Just a thought....
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