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Old 03-24-2017, 06:31 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
is that the one we yanked out?
-Christopher
I can't remember if we did yank that one out. There's nothing much to it. Its been cut at least twice. We can check that out tomorrow.
I did show you the small cut wire on the alt, didn't I?

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Old 03-24-2017, 06:35 PM   #222
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yeah it looked like they had stuck an auxilliary piece of equipment on there for some reason... appeared the field sense line was still intact..

-Christopher
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Old 03-25-2017, 12:46 PM   #223
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For anyone interested still...

I searched for a schematic for wiper switches of this sort.

What I found will explain the switch operation for most and is something for chris to use tomorrow for comparison sake.

Search for 1978 Chevy Wiper Diagram1.jpg
That search came up with too much ambiguous stuff, ads to sell me wipers, etc.? Can you just post the URL here? Thanks.
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Old 03-25-2017, 01:41 PM   #224
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That diagram I only have in my files so can email, was a while ago I found it so just saved the .jpg for it. Send me a private message and I'll get it to you dan.

This may even be more interesting for chris checking connections today

http://www.amequipment.com/wp-conten...r-Switches.pdf
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Old 03-25-2017, 02:14 PM   #225
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That diagram I only have in my files so can email, was a while ago I found it so just saved the .jpg for it. Send me a private message and I'll get it to you dan.

This may even be more interesting for chris checking connections today

http://www.amequipment.com/wp-conten...r-Switches.pdf
Good info there, if that's the brand of switch they're using. I would not trust that the color coding is standard across vendors in this situation.

PM sent; thanks.
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Old 03-25-2017, 07:54 PM   #226
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I wasn't there to watch him too much, unfortunately, but Chris has my wipers fixed. I'll let him explain, but were were one wire away from having it fixed the last time!

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Old 03-26-2017, 11:05 AM   #227
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GEEKSPEAK Warning!!. LONG POST ALERT

short version?

1. the batteries have a standing voltage of 12.56 volts even in circuit...
2. the issue ended up being 2fold. bad switch originally and a bad wire connection.

ok now thats out of the way. ha!

in the old-school way of wiperDom.. like say the old busses that have toggle switches, one for each wiper and then a separate wash switch, that just sprays...

the theory on a system like that is that each wiper has a constant Hot power feed to one terminal of the motor, that goes through an internal switch in the motor.

this internal switch is a "Park switch". a nifty device that when the wiper is in the middle of a "sweep" that switch is 'ON'. when the wiper reaches the bottom of the windshield that switch turns 'OFF'.

the dash toggle switch can also feed power to the motor. when you turn on the dash switch, the motor would run constantly..

the "voodoo" occurs when you turn off the dash switch. if you turned off your wiper when it is in the middle of a sweep (as almost always the case).. the internal switch is ON, feeding power to the motor. once the wiper reaches the bottom of the windshield, that internal switch turns Off.. and the wiper stops.. 'Parked' where it should be when not used..

that was the OLD WAY..

NOW lets fast forward to the electronic way of the 90s and up.. specifically the way EC's and "MANY MANY" other school busses are set up..

the switch that controls both wipers (as is now the case).. is computer controlled..
the motor still has the internal switch.. the difference is they now feed the output of that internal switch back to the dashboard switch instead of use it internally to power the motor. why? NO IDEA.. oh wait.. yeah its there so the Computer in the switch can read the parked status of the wiper..

when you turn the dash switch on to delay , the switch places power on the 'Low Speed' wire just long enough till the wiper jumps off of the parked position and closes that internal switch... so that you'll get 1 sweep and stop... unplugging the park wire from the dash switch results in that wiper running forever once you turn the switch on, even if you turn the switch off.. no park signal? motor run forever..

the ORIGINAL configuration was 2 wipers, 2 switches, 1 washer.. and either wash button pressed would activate Both wipers..

both switches were identical and were designed to control 2 wipers on their own, but each switch was only wired to 1 wiper..

to get the desired operation, it took some diodes and funky wiring and a "tricking" of the park circuit on each wiper, to make its switch "think" its wiper was unparked and to run when either wash button was pressed...

the ORIGINAL issue was the RIGHT side wiper would just turn on and run forever by itself... even though the knob was never touched. when we started a couple weeks ago... measuring the park switch in the right wiper watched the signal come and go exactly like it was supposed to.. at the motor and at the switch... the switch just ingored it.. and the rheostat on that switch was funky at best.. barely touch it and the wiper would take off even without turning it on.. and it was random.

flaky switch - simple - order a new one and be done!.
NOT!

not knowing any better, we got a universal school bus cole hearsey dual wiper switch with 2 connectors like most ever ybus uses.. issue was that i wasnt aware of the diode VooDoo .. and couldnt make anything work right trying to plug that switch in..

Decision? go to 2 wipers 1 switch.. like every car on the planet and most newer school busses..

plug it all in, WTF? now the issue was on the LEFT side.. really? the right wiper worked perfectly.. the Left at least didnt run on its own randomly.. but if you turned the switch on the left would run forever...

checked, double checked, Ohmed, and 3rd checked wiring and connections.. wow they look great.. *BUT* there was no park signal from the Left side motor. Just Zip ZIlch Nada..

well thats where i stopped.. yep bad park switch.. no signal...
unfortunately i had EC order a Motor.. he gets it plugs it in.. and same deal.. really? yeah ..

Hmmm.. OK now its WAR!!

after all, with No park signal whatsoever id expect the wiper to stop in the middle of the windshield not run forever... and the Switch was telling it to.. but the switch couldnt be bad, right?

reading, and googling, im thinking WTF?
ah ha! as i was having one the best Code-Jams in a long time, friday night late.. drinking Kombucha it hit me... I had the theory all wrong of the switch...

that dash switch MUST be handling park TOTALLY internally.. and the computer in it MUST see 12 volts hit the park lead on it and then go away to ever turn off the Low speed power feed to the motor... the dash switch was trying to be extra smart.. for what i had on the left motor.. was 0 volts return.. always...

back at the bus.. armed and ready... sure enough i checked the park input going to the motor and had ZERO... whereas the right hand one had +12 on its park input..

using a test clippey wire to just any 12 volt lead and BAM! the wiper ran perfect...

so digging and prodding through lots of 12 gauge GRAY wires.. following through the harness.. eventually Lead me to a very loose connection.. one that I surmised a nearby terminal should plug in... ohmed the wire.. yep!, plugged it in and bam.. both wipers ran perfect...

and there you have it.. so now he needs to drive the bus alot to make sure there was more to the right-side now manifested on the left side issue.. now i understand the theory we can nail anything that comes at us!

-Christopher
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Old 03-26-2017, 11:19 AM   #228
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Congratulations!!!

You are the MAN Christopher!!
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Old 03-26-2017, 11:37 AM   #229
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Drove around last night and used a healthy amount of wiper fluid trying to make the wipers act funky at all.
They're PERFECT now!
And like you said- IF any problems arise in the future it will now be a much easier time figuring out the problem.

THANKS A MILLION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 03-26-2017, 12:00 PM   #230
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Good job guys! It sure feels good when you finally win.
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Old 03-26-2017, 06:32 PM   #231
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"so digging and prodding through lots of 12 gauge GRAY wires.. following through the harness.. eventually Lead me to a very loose connection.. one that I surmised a nearby terminal should plug in... ohmed the wire.. yep!, plugged it in and bam.. both wipers ran perfect.."

Chris where did that wire originate and where did you terminate it? Was it the one in prior pics of a white wire with a connector just hanging but coming out of a harness of shrink wrap?

Have you found where the 12v feed originates? From the key to a fuse, into a relay or how is it split to work with key "ON" or in "Accessory". I'm still baffled about that in case the wipers loose power someday, aren't you?

So glad you got it working so that I can pray for lots of rain now for CB to fully enjoy the wipers.

Makes you wonder what taking it in for a 'pro" to tackle would have found. Would he have found a bad connection and then still replaced the parts you guys did. That would have been one huge bill for something so simple but hard to find.

Good work chris, that's stayinn power, lol!
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Old 03-26-2017, 06:43 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJohn View Post
"so digging and prodding through lots of 12 gauge GRAY wires.. following through the harness.. eventually Lead me to a very loose connection.. one that I surmised a nearby terminal should plug in... ohmed the wire.. yep!, plugged it in and bam.. both wipers ran perfect.."

Chris where did that wire originate and where did you terminate it? Was it the one in prior pics of a white wire with a connector just hanging but coming out of a harness of shrink wrap?

Have you found where the 12v feed originates? From the key to a fuse, into a relay or how is it split to work with key "ON" or in "Accessory". I'm still baffled about that in case the wipers loose power someday, aren't you?

So glad you got it working so that I can pray for lots of rain now for CB to fully enjoy the wipers.

Makes you wonder what taking it in for a 'pro" to tackle would have found. Would he have found a bad connection and then still replaced the parts you guys did. That would have been one huge bill for something so simple but hard to find.

Good work chris, that's stayinn power, lol!
the white wire with a connector at one end was found to be just dangling at the other end also so its now gone, we yanked it..

the loose connection got plugged back into what surely looked like its original connection.. the source of it goes into a bundle of other grays.. "this bus uses dark gray for Ignition or ACC + feeds.. (both are the same color)...

since the rest of the wiper + are active on ACC or IGN I made sure this one was also.. I did not follow it to its Exact Breaker

as for taking it to a Pro it couldve gone either way...

1. the Pro might have the service manual for the exact Bus which would likely or hopefully explain the theory of operation and some exact test cases to follow... something we had to figure out on our own...

2. the Pro would just go at it with a meter like we did and a bunch of hours get racked up as they figure and deduce..

3. the pro has seen and fixed the exact issue and knows right where to go first... Life experience trumps all!

alas if another forum member came ot me with a bus with busted wipers.. EC and i could likely go at it pretty quickly!

-Christopher
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Old 03-26-2017, 07:06 PM   #233
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Well said!
Wonder what made me think a technician would take anyone to the cleaners?

Once again nice work, you should get asked for a lot of advice now on here.

Hope you guys celebrate one of these days soon!

Take care.
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Old 03-26-2017, 08:01 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by BlackJohn View Post
Well said!
Wonder what made me think a technician would take anyone to the cleaners?

Once again nice work, you should get asked for a lot of advice now on here.

Hope you guys celebrate one of these days soon!

Take care.
The technician would have been working on it right in front of me, in my yard just like Chris.
Having someone who's an actual technician at the ready isn't a bad thing!!

Next time Chris can get over here I'm gonna re-do the undercoating on all four wheel wells of his Redbyrd as thanks for helping out so much.
I owe you several beers or blunts someday, as well- BlackJohn.
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Old 03-27-2017, 09:25 AM   #235
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Yay! Well fought, and well documented. Thanks for taking us along on this one.

To paraphrase a Jewish proverb, "The reward for doing a good deed is the opportunity to do another." In other words, Chris, you just screwed up in reverse. You are now stuck being the Pro from Dover on all things wiper!

Congrats, guys.
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