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Old 03-13-2017, 03:31 PM   #81
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This is a complex circuit for sure even for me so don't feel bad. Wish I was there to help trace things out. But you will. Got to chase things right back to the source to know for sure.
Pushing the rh washer pump tells me the feed goes from the left thru the right and back to both motors as you would want the blades moving when the pump runs. Will it stop as soon as you let off the rh button?
Yeah, the left one goes three or four swipes and stops when I push the washer button on the right side. Engine can be running or not for this anomaly.
The washer fluid was controlled individually until this gremlin.
When I got the bus I could use the wipers independently of one another in all aspects of their operation. Only thing not right from the get-go was the intermittent function of the right side.
Got my fuel siphoned out and ran out of fuel last thurs, and since the day after that the wipers have been acting crazy. They did it once or twice randomly before. Probably completely unrelated, but I'm just trying to give you all the info I can come up with.
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:33 PM   #82
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When that was new it must have worked just fine for a long time. Somebody has changed some part of it. I will make a diagram for you when we sort this out and that will make you understand the whole circuit. Great engineering but pricey to fix.Can you imagine what a garage would charge. They would have to check everything in the order we are too.
If you could see the complexity inside of that switch you'd shake your head a bit.
It all looks pretty darn factory in there. Other than disabling a few of the school bus only functions, everything seems like its all original equipment.
What do you think could have been changed?
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:37 PM   #83
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Just to complicate things a battery going bad in any cell will play havoc on this system. Are your batteries good in that respect? Also salty humid air drives electrical equipment bonkers. Been there done that.
The more you tell me the better sense I get of the whole picture so no biggie to me. Not to worry, we fix.
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:42 PM   #84
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The main feed is what I have to determine from those solenoids to the switches.
I saw 2 yellow wires fro the top solenoid that have a fuse I think in a black square plastic case. Dig that? Open those and see what and where they go.
I'm toking a break for a bit, mind is tired.
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:43 PM   #85
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Just to complicate things a battery going bad in any cell will play havoc on this system. Are your batteries good in that respect? Also salty humid air drives electrical equipment bonkers. Been there done that.
The more you tell me the better sense I get of the whole picture so no biggie to me. Not to worry, we fix.
Its not salty here at all. I'm as far from saltwater as one can live in FL.
THe batteries seem pretty strong, I've not tested em. They're Deka's. Bus starts just fine. I doubt they're the culprit.

Another odd thing- there is NO way I can find to turn off the radio. It comes on with the key.
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:52 PM   #86
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The main feed is what I have to determine from those solenoids to the switches.
I saw 2 yellow wires fro the top solenoid that have a fuse I think in a black square plastic case. Dig that? Open those and see what and where they go.
I'm toking a break for a bit, mind is tired.
the yellow wires go back towards the rear, then they're crimped into red, white, and black wires. They go to a small fuse block and are grounded to a relay by the Bosch ones.





They all run to the right, the rear, and up into the ceiling.
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Old 03-13-2017, 04:00 PM   #87
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The main feed is what I have to determine from those solenoids to the switches.
I saw 2 yellow wires fro the top solenoid that have a fuse I think in a black square plastic case. Dig that? Open those and see what and where they go.
I'm toking a break for a bit, mind is tired.
I'm smoking up my last.
Two bus projects and a month of no work, its getting tight.
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Old 03-13-2017, 05:24 PM   #88
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Well if you are up to it, work backwards from the wiper switches to find the feed. Has to be there someplace. I guess the yellow ones are something else. Is there not a panel with a directory or manual to give a clue?
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Old 03-13-2017, 05:32 PM   #89
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Well if you are up to it, work backwards from the wiper switches to find the feed. Has to be there someplace. I guess the yellow ones are something else. Is there not a panel with a directory or manual to give a clue?
Nope, there's nothing.
Manuals are hard to find, I guess I gotta buy one. Not that I'd even really know what its talking about lol.
I just don't see how wipers can be so damn complicated its really getting me mad.
I can order the switch, no problem. But if that doesn't fix the issue, I'll have spent darn near 10% of the cost of the bus on that one switch. Having not worked in a month, money is getting tighter. Summer's here so my work schedule will be busy for the next six months or so.
Should I just go for it and order that switch?
I found the cheapest one online @ $115.
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Old 03-13-2017, 05:44 PM   #90
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You are going to need one it looks like. Up to you but still have to find the power source no matter what for the wipers, both.
Do you think you can move the wires from the left switch over to the right side? Will verify the wiring of the right side if anything. Worth a try cuz we are still really not even close.
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Old 03-13-2017, 05:51 PM   #91
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my 1998 IC 3800 has most all wires numbered, printed on each wire every few inches.
I do not know if that is an IC thing or AmTram thing.
But your wires might also have numbers printed on them and that might help trace down wires.
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Old 03-13-2017, 05:53 PM   #92
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Its raining, I'm gona have to call it a day. I've got a good two full days in this with pretty much my only progress being getting the switch panel off. I do GRATEFULLY thank you for your time and effort.
I'm more or less pissing in the wind till someone who's actually smart can put hands on it.
I'm just hoping like HELL Christopher has the time to help me figure this out when he gets to FL.
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Old 03-13-2017, 05:55 PM   #93
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my 1998 IC 3800 has most all wires numbered, printed on each wire every few inches.
I do not know if that is an IC thing or AmTram thing.
But your wires might also have numbers printed on them and that might help trace down wires.
Some are, but mostly they're just colored with little rhyme or reason, and they often change color after a connector.
My 92 AmTran has maybe a couple dozen wires TOTAL and they're all color coded and labeled, AND numbered.
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Old 03-13-2017, 06:53 PM   #94
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Onto the CC radio heater etc.. do you still have brake lights after the CC quits?

What's your schedule look like? I'm back in st Pete again so I can run up and we can look at some of that stuff if you like
Christopher
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Old 03-13-2017, 07:02 PM   #95
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Onto the CC radio heater etc.. do you still have brake lights after the CC quits?

What's your schedule look like? I'm back in st Pete again so I can run up and we can look at some of that stuff if you like
Christopher
Schedule is wide open. I work 8-2 weds, thurs, and fri, but that's all I've got goin on at all.

The brake lights, headlights, and everything essential are unnafected.
You're totally some sort of saviour man, truly! You and BlackJohn have been so darn nice, and helpful. If you fix this I'll love you forever! lol
I try to give back to this community in way that I can. Wiring and such- I may as well be a 6th grader.
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Old 03-14-2017, 07:18 AM   #96
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Found a new in box switch for $69 with free shipping. Ordered this morning.
Why they used 2 two-motor switches is a little odd to me, but what do I know. I'm learning as I go, SLOWLY.

Can't wait till Chris helps get some of this spaghetti sorted.

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Old 03-14-2017, 07:30 AM   #97
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my carpenter has 2 switches... my redbyrd has 1...

in OLD! busses.. the right side wiper and Right-side windshield defroster / Door heater were optional...

my step-grandfather said one of his first busses he drove has only a driver side wiper... and no right side heat.. in northern ohio...

I rode a superior as a kid that had a right wiper but no right defroster. the driver carried a brromstick-long windshield scraper to scrape the right windshield and the door window in the winter..

as for your buzzers and such.. unless the buzzers keep things from working id not touch them unless you plan to keep the bus.. then id say Lets ditch all that junk.. and alot of wiring can go thats related to the school lights too.. I ditched a ton of wiring related to school lights in the carpenter.. it probably took up 1/2 of the rats-nest in the panel... I didnt physically remove the wires going front to back.. just rolled and taped them up in case I need a wire going someplace I have one without having to fish one.
-Christopher
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Old 03-14-2017, 08:03 AM   #98
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my carpenter has 2 switches... my redbyrd has 1...

in OLD! busses.. the right side wiper and Right-side windshield defroster / Door heater were optional...

my step-grandfather said one of his first busses he drove has only a driver side wiper... and no right side heat.. in northern ohio...

I rode a superior as a kid that had a right wiper but no right defroster. the driver carried a brromstick-long windshield scraper to scrape the right windshield and the door window in the winter..

as for your buzzers and such.. unless the buzzers keep things from working id not touch them unless you plan to keep the bus.. then id say Lets ditch all that junk.. and alot of wiring can go thats related to the school lights too.. I ditched a ton of wiring related to school lights in the carpenter.. it probably took up 1/2 of the rats-nest in the panel... I didnt physically remove the wires going front to back.. just rolled and taped them up in case I need a wire going someplace I have one without having to fish one.
-Christopher
Oh, we are most definitely keeping her, man. Pulled the CL ad yesterday. Too hard to find one with the gears, air ride, and new tires in the size I want.
PLEASE help me get rid of as much of this stuff as possible. Ready to make this lil bus our own!
Maybe we can even get the stereo and PA figured out!



As soon as I can, I wana get started on the FUN stuff- like painting it Tiffany blue!
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Old 03-14-2017, 08:21 AM   #99
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All this rain's got me thinking.
Maybe some of the security/tv stuff IS shorting out somewhere up in the roof area. The hatch leaks like the titanic when it rains.
I've been so pre-occupied with the dash I've not thought to look up high. But I'm gona hold of messing around with this bus anymore till we can get together and you can show me whats up with all this wizardry and spaghetti.
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Old 03-14-2017, 09:20 AM   #100
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Sounds like a relay sticking.

You just may have something there Roadrunner. Yesterday I said I hadn't seen relays involved within any windshield wiper system wiring. And really I haven't.
But I got thinking about this last night as I hate getting beat by a problem like this.

The wiper power source we were not able to determine yet.

So, the whole operation is controlled by the position of the ignition key.
That being "On" or "ACC"depending on one's preference.
So, the "OFF" position of that ignition switch has power to it at all times. That in turn must trigger a relay to power up the wiper fuse wherever that is.
So, I assume that part is working ok by what we have heard from CB.

Your sticking relay comment kind of haunted me from the time I read it.
So I think you are correct and wanted to tell you so as I had my doubts.

The wiper fuse feed has to be hot at all times depending on the key position and this is the only way that can be done.
Make sense?

So CB, forget the tracing and just install the switch you ordered and all should be fine. Except for not knowing where the fuse is at.
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