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Old 03-20-2017, 11:25 AM   #161
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the CC is fully operated through the ECM on the bus.. however if the comoputer sets certain error codes then it will disable the CC...

or if an electrical issue makes the cruise think its been turned off or it thinks the brake input goes high..

I think next time im up there, EC and I need to take a long bus ride and see if we can make it fail while ive got my laptop connected to the ECM.. it may even be a code that doesnt turn on the WARN light... and as ive found the older industrial stuff isnt as good at retaining code history as the modern..

im guessing it will end up being obvious with the CC... we get a code set, or the dash switch is flaky etc.. the ECM shows many parameters and inputs when connected while driving..

-Christopher
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:28 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
I am afraid I am late for the game........

I had a similar issue some years ago and it turned our to be the "return" switch inside the wiper motor. I don't know the correct name for the piece that causes the wiper to return to the base of the window. Mine stayed in the "on" condition when the wiper got to the end of its cycle so it continued running.

If memory serves me we fixed it by replacing the nylon gear/cam that actuated the switch.
That's what Chris and I agreed on, too. Testing the Park/Return circuit showed that to be bad. The diodes were making the issue manifest itself on the other side.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:31 PM   #163
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Sounds like you guys will get er done sooner or later. I have seen many situations like this and they are hard on the brain to track down.
Some wipers are better than none but not my preference as you have read.
What kind of wire is that pink wire anyway? Can you read any printing on it? Probably used because it was cheap and plentiful. Would help if it was numbered in troubleshooting for sure.
Being up here and knowing what you guys have gone through gives me skull cramps! Glad I have some cabinetmaking in my bus to take my mind off the gremils you have.
Is the CC vacuum operated or strictly electric. Could be a vac leak or what else, software glitch.

Me thinks you might have Private Andrew Malone onboard.
Thanks for the Herb Alpert video too, the man can blow a horn.
Love some Alpert. And Mangione.
I just have to pepper some music into a thread once in a while. I try to surprise folks with unexpected stuff.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:32 PM   #164
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the CC is fully operated through the ECM on the bus.. however if the comoputer sets certain error codes then it will disable the CC...

or if an electrical issue makes the cruise think its been turned off or it thinks the brake input goes high..

I think next time im up there, EC and I need to take a long bus ride and see if we can make it fail while ive got my laptop connected to the ECM.. it may even be a code that doesnt turn on the WARN light... and as ive found the older industrial stuff isnt as good at retaining code history as the modern..

im guessing it will end up being obvious with the CC... we get a code set, or the dash switch is flaky etc.. the ECM shows many parameters and inputs when connected while driving..

-Christopher
Sounds like a plan.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:44 PM   #165
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PNW - the park switch is what they seem to call it... and yeah thats what ive come up with is on the left side motor I never get a signal when the wiper passes the parked position...

ECCB - notice they actually do make that wierd switch... just for the AmTran busses.. W414 near the bottom..



-Christopher
I"m actually glad we DIDN'T see that before I bought the new switch. I've got the feeling we're on the right track, even if I lose that bit of redundancy.
I'm all for lessening the amount of switches, wires, and components. Within reason.


BJ- I want to again tell you how much I value your input, man. Your thoughts on the switches have been heard and I definitely appreciate where you're coming from with that.
That said- I'm just hoping we get some fairly sweet lemonade from all this! If it makes you feel any better, I'm planning to keep a spare wiper switch, just in case. A screw driver, a pair of pliers, and about 2 mins is all it would take to change it if I were in a pinch. Granted, I'd hope it never fails while driving. But that's happened to me before driving old vw's. Especially when switching from 6v to 12v.

Funny- I thought you were a black guy named John. I have a friend from Jamaica named Black John, but for more obvious reasons than yours!
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:34 PM   #166
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Wiper motor already shipped and on its way.
I can hardly stand the suspense!! Its the same thing when I get a moped torn down. I can't stand it till I've got it all figured out.
The guys on the moped forum say my OCD has netted me at least 4 mph more than any of their peds with similar setups!
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:47 PM   #167
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get some of those cool bikes out and lets go ridin!

hey thats what we need is some good Tuneage while workin on the bus!

-Christopher
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:58 PM   #168
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get some of those cool bikes out and lets go ridin!

hey thats what we need is some good Tuneage while workin on the bus!

-Christopher
Hell yeah!

Mopeds are ALWAYS a good time. Especially when dealing with other frustrating projects. The only thing that makes me smile like driving a school bus is hauling ass through town on my moped(s).
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Old 03-23-2017, 08:23 AM   #169
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New motor didn't fix it.
Dang this electrical stuff!
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Old 03-23-2017, 08:46 AM   #170
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So no lemonade yet CB?
Pray it doesn't rain .
As I have been saying, let's track that power source down.
When you know that, then you can expect what wiring you do will be correct, not what someone else has done.
A circuit is nothing more than a roadmap to a destination. So, would you drive from your place , go to NYC to go to CO? That's my simple theory. There are extra wires doing some backfeeding.

Did the new motor work at all even if the gremlins still exist?
170 posts and hair pulling out territory now, lmao.

Didn't know my twin was in Jamaica man, give him my best.
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Old 03-23-2017, 08:50 AM   #171
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So no lemonade yet CB?
Pray it doesn't rain .
As I have been saying, let's track that power source down.
When you know that, then you can expect what wiring you do will be correct, not what someone else has done.
A circuit is nothing more than a roadmap to a destination. So, would you drive from your place , go to NYC to go to CO? That's my simple theory. There are extra wires doing some backfeeding.

Did the new motor work at all even if the gremlins still exist?
170 posts and hair pulling out territory now, lmao.

Didn't know my twin was in Jamaica man, give him my best.
The new motor works just fine. The old ones do too. I now have a spare wiper motor lol.
I have a multimeter. Where do I start? Me and chris have looked at pretty much everything.
It now does it even when the bus isn't running. Before it had to be running to make the wiper come on and stay on.
We almost did get caught in a really bad rainstorm that came out of nowhere last night. We got to our friends place, and black clouds blew in then lightning. We beat the rain, but had to high tail it home.
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Old 03-23-2017, 08:51 AM   #172
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he plugged the new motor in and got same results, the left side still runs..

what I had when I was there testing with a meter was never any signal on the Park circuit, on the right side motor there is a park circuit signal that makes and breaks as the motor passes the park position.

I surmised with no park circuit signal that the park switch in the motor was shot.. obviously not at this point...

-Christopher
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Old 03-23-2017, 08:55 AM   #173
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Yeah, seemed like the sure fix to me too.
What's the next component to check?
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Old 03-23-2017, 08:59 AM   #174
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The new motor works just fine. The old ones do too. I now have a spare wiper motor lol.
I have a multimeter. Where do I start? Me and chris have looked at pretty much everything.
It now does it even when the bus isn't running. Before it had to be running to make the wiper come on and stay on.
We almost did get caught in a really bad rainstorm that came out of nowhere last night. We got to our friends place, and black clouds blew in then lightning. We beat the rain, but had to high tail it home.
I dont remember the bus having to run.. at least where we left it on the weekend..

Blackjohn has to be onto something.. backfeed from somewhere or a terminal in that connector thats not making good contact.. I need to see if o can get a diagram for my Bluebird, its the same setup, single switch 2 wipers..

since we never installed that motor, you may be able to return it.. but we need to get on it again and go over it all again..
-Christopher
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Old 03-23-2017, 09:02 AM   #175
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I dont remember the bus having to run.. at least where we left it on the weekend..

Blackjohn has to be onto something.. backfeed from somewhere or a terminal in that connector thats not making good contact.. I need to see if o can get a diagram for my Bluebird, its the same setup, single switch 2 wipers..

since we never installed that motor, you may be able to return it.. but we need to get on it again and go over it all again..
-Christopher
Originally it was the right side that was running-on. When you rewired the new switch, the problem moved to the left. When it was on the right side, it was only happening with the bus' engine running.
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Old 03-23-2017, 09:09 AM   #176
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I got it.. yes that was definitely the case.. and at that point, we had a park signal that was ignored .. though i didnt test for a signal from the left motor at that point...

the consensus was the park signal was being ignored by the switch and a constant on was being sent from the switch to that side.

I thought I knew wiper theory but time to read up again and take more notes..

-Christopher
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Old 03-23-2017, 09:21 AM   #177
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This guy's had a diode as well, till he put in the same switch we put in.
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Old 03-23-2017, 12:30 PM   #178
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Cb, I read back to post 81 where you said it happens when engine is running or not.

That contradicts what you have just posted that now it only happens when it's running.

It was both ways before any troubleshooting happened.

Ok, set multimeter for 12v dc and give me a battery voltage reading right off the battery posts. In fact disconnect the batteries and do both and then report findings of each. Got a hygrometer? Check each cell in each battery and record. I'll tell you why later.
You said you have new batteries to I believe, not installed yet. Charge them up and get readings of voltage in each out of the bus. Then install them, as you said it was time anyway I believe, to do that.
Busy here today but checking in, working on my build and a dear friend dropped dead yesterday so dealing with that too.

Remove the switch from the panel when the batteries are disconnected and let it hang freely and then we can start testing when batteries have been accessed more.
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Old 03-23-2017, 12:39 PM   #179
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this explains why I am so anal about two switches, two motors having been a boater all my life. Those rains can come anytime even on land where you have fewer options when driving to get off the road or continue driving knowing your system is good and gives you the vision you need.
Maybe we can get it back there for you yet. I know you too well now to loose you. And you have to consider the precious cargo you carry.. the bride to be....
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Old 03-23-2017, 12:42 PM   #180
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Christopher hello. Not sure about being on to something, just wanting to be sure of what we have. Alas, back to square one,
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