Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-07-2023, 07:10 PM   #1
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: Carlsbad NM
Posts: 343
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Blue-Bird All American RE
Chassis: F204270
Engine: Cummins 8.3 ISC
I am hunting AC Electrical breaker box

This build is Office/Music Studio, Workshop, Home / kitchen fridge, Drawer Dishwasher, lights etc. Misc small appliance only used 1 at a time and briefly.

The studio runs about 700watts on the high end if my calculations are correct.
When I ran it through an Eco flow it seemed to be pulling 365watts as a norm.

The Room/Sticks and bricks studio I am in has a 20 amp AC breaker. So I am working on the theory if it never tripped the breaker therefore.

I was thinking A/C POSSIBLY 2 units. 2
THE STUDIO/workshop. 1
exterior 15 amp Plugs 1
Kitchen 1
Washer dryer if ever I get that lucky 1
So, 6 AC Breakers

8 gauge wire for most of it.
6 gauge to the Kitchen.

Recommendations on the panel?
Thoughts?
The picture is of the actual items.... haven't worked through the flow path as yet.
Thanks
Attached Thumbnails
Bus Electricalc Layout.jpg  

jfmusic@me.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2023, 08:53 AM   #2
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 473
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird Mini-Bird 24'
Chassis: Chevy P30
Engine: Chevy 6.2L Diesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfmusic@me.com View Post
This build is Office/Music Studio, Workshop, Home / kitchen fridge, Drawer Dishwasher, lights etc. Misc small appliance only used 1 at a time and briefly.

The studio runs about 700watts on the high end if my calculations are correct. When I ran it through an Eco flow it seemed to be pulling 365watts as a norm.

The Room/Sticks and bricks studio I am in has a 20 amp AC breaker. So I am working on the theory if it never tripped the breaker therefore.

I was thinking A/C POSSIBLY 2 units. 2
THE STUDIO/workshop. 1
exterior 15 amp Plugs 1
Kitchen 1
Washer dryer if ever I get that lucky 1
So, 6 AC Breakers

8 gauge wire for most of it.
6 gauge to the Kitchen.

Recommendations on the panel? Thoughts? The picture is of the actual items.... haven't worked through the flow path as yet.
Thanks
First off, that wire gauge is going to be way too big for most of those runs. Typically in a modern home, they're using 14ga for 15A 120 VAC circuits & 12ga for 20A 120 VAC circuits; you could easily go up a size to 12ga & 10ga since you're likely to be closer to max periodically, but I wouldn't go any heavier than that on your 120-side.

Secondly, I would separate the studio circuit as much as you possibly can from everything else--but particularly the A/C system, and definitely the kitchen & washer/dryer. Honestly, I would go so far as to get a dedicated inverter for that circuit/system because you don't want to deal with any feedback into your record system or your amps. If you get a ground-loop hum in an amp, it could be especially nasty, and one of the best ways to prevent that is to keep those power-supply circuits separate. As a guy that's spent years in live music and stage production, as well as spending some time working for a "big" studio (actually dealt with artists that people have heard about), you're going to want to do everything to protect and reduce your SNR as possible--good electrical supply is pretty crucial to that. I'm not saying that you will need to use some 0000ga wire to a 12' copper rod to properly ground out your bus... But considering the application, I wouldn't exactly discourage it, either.

Amplifiers and computers are going to be the main loads on a studio circuit. If you're using something like 50W self-powered monitors, then your draw is going to be relatively low, so at that point your main load is going to be the video monitor and especially the DAW, maybe whatever FX racks you've got going. And of course anything you've got that's using tubes will have more of a load. Condensers don't require much power, but if the power they get is "dirty", it's going to amplify your noise into the signal, so you'll want to keep it clean. You'll definitely be wanting to use a decent Furman power conditioner at the top of your rack if your aren't already.

Lastly, you're not going to be running A/Cs on 700W, and if you do, they'll just make some noise and not cool anything--not unless you've got at least $10K in high R-value insulation, and probably some additional sound isolation. Even then, I wouldn't expect to use them while boondocking unless you're also going to be running a genset.

Run the recommended wire gauges to your outlets, use a second inverter for your studio circuit, and use heavier gauge wire to connect the inverters to your batteries.
Albatross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2023, 09:18 AM   #3
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: Carlsbad NM
Posts: 343
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Blue-Bird All American RE
Chassis: F204270
Engine: Cummins 8.3 ISC
Hi, thank you very much for the information. I went with the Heavier 8 gauge because I bought a large pile of cabling at a really good price, 8 gauge had the most footage, and the shore power in is 8 or 10 as listed by Marinco. So I figured it was a safe number throughout. A pain for connections yes.
I have a tripplite conditioner I have used for the front end of the studio for years. And a second one to use for ? It was on my Washer/dryer as a safety.

Frankly my state of affairs I have been focused on getting out of LA making progress on the Rough'in, Diesel heater, under storage, and Insulation on the bus. My Studio setup has taken a back seat. Only thought as far as its location and basic layout. The Wood Strapping I finished 2 days ago. Basic wire pull without connections as well.

Everything has already taken 3 months longer then I would have hoped. Getting closer to load and go. But it's already another 5 days of everything getting in the way. Including a health issue that popped up yesterday and cost the day. Doing my best not to emotionally crash and burn.

All the help here has been a lifesaver, so thank you and everybody else who has been kind.
jfmusic@me.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2023, 10:09 AM   #4
Bus Crazy
 
DeMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,571
Coachwork: Integrated Coach Corp.
Chassis: RE-300 42ft
Engine: 466ci
Rated Cap: 90
Be Safe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albatross View Post
First off, that wire gauge is going to be way too big for most of those runs. Typically in a modern home, they're using 14ga for 15A 120 VAC circuits & 12ga for 20A 120 VAC circuits; you could easily go up a size to 12ga & 10ga since you're likely to be closer to max periodically, but I wouldn't go any heavier than that on your 120-side.
(........)
Run the recommended wire gauges to your outlets, use a second inverter for your studio circuit, and use heavier gauge wire to connect the inverters to your batteries.
-------------
Absolutely.

NEC 110.14(A) limits the connection "by means of wire-binding screws or studs and nuts that have upturned lugs or the equivalent" for 10 AWG or smaller. Also look at the specs provided by the device manufacturer, for the devices which you're using. Sometimes the max conductor size is embossed onto the device plastic.





Most 15A/120v devices (switches, recepticals, etc) are NOT rated for wiresizes above 12g. The more expensive 20A rated devices typically DO accept 10g. (You ought to be using 20A rated devices on circuits which are protected by 20A brkrs)

You could run #8 to the j-boxes, then tail off each #8 with a #12 to install onto the device.
__________________
Ceiling: Framing & Electrical Rough-in
Convert Hatch to AC & Roof Patch
🇺🇸 Frederick Douglass: "If there is no struggle, there is no progress.
DeMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2023, 11:38 AM   #5
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 473
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird Mini-Bird 24'
Chassis: Chevy P30
Engine: Chevy 6.2L Diesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfmusic@me.com View Post
Hi, thank you very much for the information. I went with the Heavier 8 gauge because I bought a large pile of cabling at a really good price, 8 gauge had the most footage, and the shore power in is 8 or 10 as listed by Marinco. So I figured it was a safe number throughout. A pain for connections yes.
Is it safe? Yes, but also no. Heavy AWG can handle what you throw at it, but if something else breaks, then you can also very easily over-supply current to anything on the circuit and fry whatever you have connected. Or worse, harm someone, or start a fire. I would seriously consider possibly trying to buy an electrician a beer or a sixer and see if you can get him to trade you for some 10ga & 12 ga for your 8. Or maybe you can buy some off him for his costs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfmusic@me.com View Post
I have a tripplite conditioner I have used for the front end of the studio for years. And a second one to use for ? It was on my Washer/dryer as a safety.
Tripp-lite is an Eaton label, and I would honestly consider them the only other real choice for studio stuff; yeah, they're behind Furman a bit, but if you can't afford a Furman, then you should figure out how to get a Tripplite. I would keep the one you have as a backup to your studio PowerCon/strip, and I'd probably put it on any other circuit where you're likely to have anything digital that could be a bit more sensitive to power irregularities. OR, you could put it on a circuit that has a nasty/dirty load so that the 1:1 xformers keep the dirty load from feeding back into the rest of your supply. Washer/dryer seems like a reasonable choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfmusic@me.com View Post
Everything has already taken 3 months longer then I would have hoped.
Welcome and congratulations... You are now an official "skoolie", lol.

That's just skoolie life. And a big part of why everyone laughs here when someone new comes around and says something like, "I need to get this whole project done in 3-6 months."
Albatross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2023, 02:31 PM   #6
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: Carlsbad NM
Posts: 343
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Blue-Bird All American RE
Chassis: F204270
Engine: Cummins 8.3 ISC
Thanks... I see the graphic and I don't disagree. The only issue is we are using stranded and not solid . So, in effect, all bets are off on the connection point.
jfmusic@me.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.