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Old 02-08-2020, 09:59 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
Do you have a diagram like this somewhere?

Attachment 41429

This is from my Thomas pusher.
Putting the original wires back together is one way of doing it.

The other way is to think about what is going on here. All of those start relays are just clutter in between your key switch and your starter. On my bus we ran a wire from the IGN terminal on my keyswitch to the last relay on the engine, bypassing all of this. This is easier on a rear engine bus bc there is a start button in the engine compartment. This new ignition wire of course will not go straight to the starter. It will only trip a switch and activate a larger amperage wire to the starter. An automotive mechanic should be able to bypass those extra relays once you explain what you want. It’s a standard start circuit w a bunch of junk in the way.

Then you can pull off all of those freaking buzzers!
Yes , they will still be buzzing bc the bus thinks your windows are still open.
Keep the air tank buzzer.

I hope this makes sense. I’m on my first cup this am.
Get back to me if not.
I know what you are feeling. I did the same shite, and some member on here explained the “ basic start circuit theory” and we figured it out
Good Luck! Dave


My bad. Run wire from ST terminal of the start switch, NOT IGN!

Maybe some electrically inclined guys on here can explain this concept better.
Dave
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Old 02-08-2020, 06:16 PM   #22
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On my small cut-away van bus only the rear door had a safety switch in the start circuit. I imagine real buses have side door, rear door, and? have a safety switch in the start circuit.
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Old 02-11-2020, 08:47 PM   #23
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So I have some good news, I called Midwest Transit and they DO do bus wire repairs!

They said $110 for a house call and $120/hr for labor. Does that sound pretty reasonable to everyone? I mean it basically better be because I doubt they will haggle and I haven't found anyone else who does this.

When I get my tax returns end of this week start of next I'm having them come over and get it done.
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Old 02-11-2020, 09:57 PM   #24
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Because I have never been very flush with cash when issues have arisen I have done some interesting work arounds in order to save my cash.


In your case, because you have cut wires and then spray foamed over them it is going to be extremely difficult to "fix" things.


If it were me I would do a simple work around and mount a momentary switch that will directly energize the starter. It would completely go around any and all safety switches. As long as when you turn on the key it energizes the engine run programing adding a push button starter switch should do the trick for you. The safety switches usually disable the starter circuit but doesn't disable the engine running system.



Finding and repairing all of the safety switch circuits is not going to be easy even if the tech is familiar with the vintage and model Thomas bus that you have.



Not easy=not cheap.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:16 PM   #25
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No important wires are covered with spray foam. What does "fix" mean? I am also not flush wish cash, but nor am I flush with electrical skills. "Simple" to you doesn't equate to "simple" to me. We are planning a bypass with a push button starter.
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:01 AM   #26
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$120 an hour is not terrible (unless I am writing the check) for medium duty vehicle service. The two shops here that I have worked with here charge $115 and $125 an hour.

The bad news is that, unless the tech is familiar with the particular interlocks on your bus, it may take a few hours to figure it out.

It's too late for you but I would stress to others starting out: DON'T CUT ANY WIRES until you have disabled your safety interlock.

I had no idea how to disable mine. I am pretty sharp with things electrical and knew that given enough time that I could figure it out.

I decided to try something crazy first. I called the local Bluebird dealer and ask the service manager. He was able to give me straightforward directions to remove the proper relay and insert a jumper to completely disable the interlocks. The relay was plugged into an electrical panel hidden behind a panel located behind the drivers windshield wiper. I'm not sure that I would have found it on my own.

Good luck.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:18 AM   #27
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No important wires are covered with spray foam. What does "fix" mean? I am also not flush wish cash, but nor am I flush with electrical skills. "Simple" to you doesn't equate to "simple" to me. We are planning a bypass with a push button starter.

Fix=getting the engine to start.


If you are planning a bypass with a push button starter switch then you are well on the way to getting the problem "fixed".


My 1995 K1500 Suburban for some reason stopped starting when the key was turned to the start position. If you jumped the poles on the starter it would start right up. On that particular model of Suburban the ignition switch and the Park/Neutral safety switch was moved from the base of the steering column to the middle of the steering column. It would have required taking the driver's seat out so I would be able to get under the dashboard to access the steering column. It would have also required taking apart the bottom section of the dashboard in order to access the switch. Instead I ran a wire from a circuit that was hot whenever the key was in the run position to a momentary switch I put on the dashboard. From the switch I ran a wire down to the switched terminal on the starter solenoid. And now the Suburban starts whenever the key is turned on and the button is pushed.


The same can be done to your bus. It will eliminate all of the safety switches. But as long as you don't try to start in gear you shouldn't ever have any problems since you no longer have to worry about locked emergency doors/exits.



As PNW Steve has mentioned, unless the tech is very familiar with your particular year, make, and model bus you could spend lots of $$$$ while the tech learns about how your bus is wired.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:50 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
Fix=getting the engine to start.
If you are planning a bypass with a push button starter switch then you are well on the way to getting the problem "fixed".
I actually know what fixed means, I just didn't know why you had to put it in quotation marks.
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Old 02-12-2020, 03:35 PM   #29
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Guys... I have done a terrible thing...

So last year, I cut the wires to the back door and roof hatches, running afoul of the safety lock system. WHY, with all the years of research and prep I have done, did I do this stupid thing? Because I am a stupid idiot, OKAY? I was in a rush, trying to get the bus ready to be spray foamed before the weather turned, and I just cut the wires.

Of course, since then the bus hasn't started, and has been landed and stranded in the backyard.

Obviously this situation can't continue. I need to get it repaired.

I SUCK at wires and electronics, so telling me what to do to my own bus probably won't help. You might as well tell my dog; he'll understand you almost as well as I. I've read the threads, I REALLY tried to understand them and I just don't. I've even had an electrician friend give a go at repairing it, with no luck. (to be fair, house electrician but at least he understands the stuff rather better than I)

SO. I need to hire someone to fix it for me. Problem is, apparently there is no such thing as a school bus wire repair guy. Unless there IS and I've been missing it?

My question is, does anyone know what kind of person I should call for bus wire/safety interlock repairs like this?

Please help me out. I need to repair my mistakes. I wanna hear my bus engine roar again. I wanna take the DreamWeaver places...
Its gonna be a relay issue. I was worried about my bus, but its old enough to not have the relay issue. Dont want to drive off with open back doors so kids can fall out, its a safty measure. But there are easy ways to fix it if you can find someone competent.
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Old 02-12-2020, 05:52 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by DreamWeaverBus View Post
So I have some good news, I called Midwest Transit and they DO do bus wire repairs!

They said $110 for a house call and $120/hr for labor. Does that sound pretty reasonable to everyone? I mean it basically better be because I doubt they will haggle and I haven't found anyone else who does this.

When I get my tax returns end of this week start of next I'm having them come over and get it done.
My local diesel repair, because I live 1.5 miles from them, will show up and work for $90/hr, no housecall fee, but minimum 1hr.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:34 PM   #31
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I did the same thing...solution was to tie the wires together to complete the circuit. Not sure if our scenarios are the same, but you could try it.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:35 PM   #32
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An automotive electrical tech can help you! Search for that! There's an expert in your area for sure, there always is! I do basic automotive electronics remote starts, radios, amps, speakers, back up cameras and led bar install! Lil stuff, lol When I couldn't figure out why my tail lights won't come on I asked around at the local garages, they got me to the right guy!!
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:37 PM   #33
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An automotive electrical tech can help you! Search for that! There's an expert in your area for sure, there always is! I do basic automotive electronics remote starts, radios, amps, speakers, back up cameras and led bar install! Lil stuff, lol When I couldn't figure out why my tail lights won't come on I asked around at the local garages, they got me to the right guy!! The emergency exits have I believe an interlock??
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Old 02-13-2020, 12:07 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWeaverBus View Post
Guys... I have done a terrible thing...

So last year, I cut the wires to the back door and roof hatches, running afoul of the safety lock system. WHY, with all the years of research and prep I have done, did I do this stupid thing? Because I am a stupid idiot, OKAY? I was in a rush, trying to get the bus ready to be spray foamed before the weather turned, and I just cut the wires.

Of course, since then the bus hasn't started, and has been landed and stranded in the backyard.

Obviously this situation can't continue. I need to get it repaired.

I SUCK at wires and electronics, so telling me what to do to my own bus probably won't help. You might as well tell my dog; he'll understand you almost as well as I. I've read the threads, I REALLY tried to understand them and I just don't. I've even had an electrician friend give a go at repairing it, with no luck. (to be fair, house electrician but at least he understands the stuff rather better than I)

SO. I need to hire someone to fix it for me. Problem is, apparently there is no such thing as a school bus wire repair guy. Unless there IS and I've been missing it?

My question is, does anyone know what kind of person I should call for bus wire/safety interlock repairs like this?

Please help me out. I need to repair my mistakes. I wanna hear my bus engine roar again. I wanna take the DreamWeaver places...



Diesel or gas? Old school or computerized? I don't know anything about your electrical problem... but I've never let being ignorant stop me. Safety crap doesn't have any thing to do with making any machine I have ever seen work, it just has to do with making it not work/start.


If its old school, we have been bypassing safety circuits for ever. Just find what ever wire the safety crap is interupting, cut out the safety crap and splice back together. Kinda like hot wiring (bypassing the ignition switch) a car to start it. With gas engines it is hot wire from battery to ignition coil. With diesel I would think that it would be something in fuel delivery, but I don' know anything about diesel and even less about computerized engines (maybe a dip switch to bypass? or code?). I think following the wires from the ignition switch would lead me to whatever it is controlling or a relay in the path.


Just thinking out loud... There has to be a wire in the harness going back to the door and hatch and one coming back, probably to the ignition switch. Check the colors and sizes of the wires where you cut them. Go back up front and find 2 wires in the harness going back that match the colors and size. One should be hot, that is probably the one going back to the door/hatch. The other one should be the one coming back up to the ignition switch, so splicing them together should work? Probably be safer to disconnect the positive on the battery, splice, then turn on the switch and check continuity to whatever the wires were bypassing (ignition coil, fuel pump, fuel cutoff, etc) If you now have power where it is supposed to be (if any doubt, try to get a second, third opinion), reconnect positive cable to battery and try it.



Good luck. keep your fire extinguisher handy.
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Old 02-13-2020, 12:27 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
Fix=getting the engine to start.


If you are planning a bypass with a push button starter switch then you are well on the way to getting the problem "fixed".


My 1995 K1500 Suburban for some reason stopped starting when the key was turned to the start position. If you jumped the poles on the starter it would start right up. On that particular model of Suburban the ignition switch and the Park/Neutral safety switch was moved from the base of the steering column to the middle of the steering column. It would have required taking the driver's seat out so I would be able to get under the dashboard to access the steering column. It would have also required taking apart the bottom section of the dashboard in order to access the switch. Instead I ran a wire from a circuit that was hot whenever the key was in the run position to a momentary switch I put on the dashboard. From the switch I ran a wire down to the switched terminal on the starter solenoid. And now the Suburban starts whenever the key is turned on and the button is pushed.


The same can be done to your bus. It will eliminate all of the safety switches. But as long as you don't try to start in gear you shouldn't ever have any problems since you no longer have to worry about locked emergency doors/exits.



As PNW Steve has mentioned, unless the tech is very familiar with your particular year, make, and model bus you could spend lots of $$$$ while the tech learns about how your bus is wired.

My "momentary switches" always involved touching two wires together. LOL
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Old 02-13-2020, 01:35 AM   #36
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Before paying anybody hundreds of dollars one simple thing to try is connect the 2 wires together where you have 2, and where you have one wire screw it to the metal on the bus to ground it. Shouldn’t take long and worth a try.
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Old 02-13-2020, 06:37 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by DreamWeaverBus View Post
No important wires are covered with spray foam. What does "fix" mean? I am also not flush wish cash, but nor am I flush with electrical skills. "Simple" to you doesn't equate to "simple" to me. We are planning a bypass with a push button starter.
If you are going for a bypass then no need to trace any wires. Just make sure the ignition wire actually energizes the injection pump and the glow plug relay in start and then run a new wire to the starter solenoid from your button. Shouldn't take more than an hour or two.
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Old 02-13-2020, 07:32 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by DreamWeaverBus View Post
That also sounds familiar to me...
DreamWeaver,

Looks like you've bricked your bus by cutting the ignition interlock on the back door. If the picture from this post that I'm replying to is YOUR picture from your bus, I have some ideas of what to do.

First off, if I'm correct, when you turn your key, everything lights up. Then when you turn to crank, it simply clicks. If that is the case, I have a simple solution you can try with pictures.

Per the picture posted, you have 3 wires. I will call them left, right, and front. Leave front. Remove the right wire and put it on the same terminal as left wire. Attempt to start the vehicle.

Should look like this:
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Old 02-13-2020, 10:44 AM   #39
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DreamWeaver,

Looks like you've bricked your bus by cutting the ignition interlock on the back door. If the picture from this post that I'm replying to is YOUR picture from your bus, I have some ideas of what to do.

First off, if I'm correct, when you turn your key, everything lights up. Then when you turn to crank, it simply clicks. If that is the case, I have a simple solution you can try with pictures.

Per the picture posted, you have 3 wires. I will call them left, right, and front. Leave front. Remove the right wire and put it on the same terminal as left wire. Attempt to start the vehicle.

Should look like this:
Best advice I've heard yet. If it works, then splice those two wires together and throw the relay (that silver cylinder thingy) away and continue with your adventures!
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Old 02-13-2020, 10:58 AM   #40
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Best advice I've heard yet. If it works, then splice those two wires together and throw the relay (that silver cylinder thingy) away and continue with your adventures!
Maybe it's just my personality, but I'm keeping that relay. Never know when it'll come in handy!

That being said, I haven't even spliced together the wires, it's still as is in that picture. I'm thinking the left wire goes to another relay somewhere, probably high amperage or something. I'm eventually going to search for that and, if I find it, try to repurpose it somewhere. Waste not want not, or something like that!
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