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Old 08-05-2018, 01:49 PM   #1
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lithium iron batteries?

who has tried them, what's your experience? I'm looking at you JD! and anyone else

the price is coming down and if its a 100% DOD, its probably cheaper than agm.
i just got a quote off Alibaba for 200AH for $1200 delivered.

shipping is almost the same as the battery

https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...22213e5fnRfTCs
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:07 PM   #2
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Cordless iron?
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Old 08-05-2018, 03:37 PM   #3
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My son just got his finished about a month ago. He has 16 160AH in series parallel. He has about 300AH usable. First time out he ran his roof shaker AC all night and didn't use half of his usable AH.
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:10 PM   #4
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"16 160AH in series parallel. He has about 300AH usable."


16 x 160 = 2560 amp hours total
X 50 % discharge = 1280 usable AH
8 hours of AC usage at 60 AH per hour =480 AH from a 1280 AH supply OK
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:11 PM   #5
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Hey the dog ate my line

That sounds reasonable
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
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"16 160AH in series parallel. He has about 300AH usable."


16 x 160 = 2560 amp hours total
X 50 % discharge = 1280 usable AH
8 hours of AC usage at 60 AH per hour =480 AH from a 1280 AH supply OK
2560 A/H would be if all of the batteries were in series.

SomewhereintheUSA indicates "16 160AH in series parallel. He has about 300AH usable."

I am guessing that he has them connected 2s4p. That would yield a 640 A/H bank with 320 A/H usable assuming 50% DOD.
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
16 x 160 = 2560 amp hours total
Except that it don't work that way. Anything you connect in series the AH stays the same. Batteries hooked in parallel add the AH, voltage stays the same.
2x 1.5 volt 160AH batteries in series = 3 volt 160AH
2x 1.5 volt 160AH batteries in parallel = 1.5 volt 320 AH

The 300 figure is what he told me, I believe he is running 24 volt as that is what his coach is.
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:56 PM   #8
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how big was his battery bank before the change if its 300AH @24v useable now?
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:05 PM   #9
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Except that it don't work that way. Anything you connect in series the AH stays the same. Batteries hooked in parallel add the AH, voltage stays the same.
2x 1.5 volt 160AH batteries in series = 3 volt 160AH
2x 1.5 volt 160AH batteries in parallel = 1.5 volt 320 AH

The 300 figure is what he told me, I believe he is running 24 volt as that is what his coach is.
Your math is correct. For a meaningful comparison, battery capacity of a system should be expressed in kWh (Volt x Ah /1000). kWh is what you are buying from the power company regardless of whether your consuming appliances are 110 Volt or 220.
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:13 PM   #10
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[QUOTE=turf;284811]who has tried them, what's your experience? I'm looking at you JD! and anyone else

the price is coming down and if its a 100% DOD, its probably cheaper than agm.
i just got a quote off Alibaba for 200AH for $1200 delivered.

shipping is almost the same as the battery


The spec that it gives says : Standard Continuous Discharge Current 80A
Max. Continuous Discharge Current (<30min) 100A
so that is going to be some pricy amp hours.
How many batterys for the $1200 quote?
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:19 PM   #11
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I totally missed the series parallel part.
Oops
That is totally my bad.
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Old 08-05-2018, 07:07 PM   #12
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the quote was for either:
1 - 200 AH, 12V battery

or 2 - 100AH 12V batteries.

i can get the 100AH batteries in 3 days, the 200AH battery would be a month.



right now, i want to replace 4 marine grp 29 lead acid batteries. on a good day that should be 4 x 100AH for 400AH. 200AH useable.

i would never imagine running a rooftop AC, but how big is the converter?
if he used 150AH @24v - then theoretically, a 24V 200AH battery would do that?

24 volt will be tempting when i add solar. I'm all 12V but a converter and some wiring would fix that.

right now the batteries are charged by shore or gen only.
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Old 08-05-2018, 07:21 PM   #13
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I've been taking a long hard look at LiFePo4 prismatic cells. Same technology as what's in that packaged battery linked on alibaba, but without the fancy packaging. Buying the cells separately gives the benefit and the burden of assembling the charge control and monitoring solution to suit one's own desires.

Have you compared the cost of new LiFePo4 vs a recycled electric or hybrid car pack? I haven't done that yet.
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Old 08-06-2018, 05:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
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who has tried them, what's your experience? I'm looking at you JD!
I've been called out!!!

Mine are Lithium Iron Manganese Phosphate (LiFeMnPO4), or simply LFMP. I have 10,000 watt hours capacity configured as a 24 volt bank. This translates to 400 Ah @ 25 volts (or 800 Ah @ 12.5 volts). 85% of that is usable so about 680 amp hours. That is in in a rather small and light package of 230 pounds and 22 X 19x 10.



I LOVE THEM!! Of course, I paid a small fortune for them so I have to love them. That said, I really do love them! They charge incredibly quickly, I don't have to worry about discharge rate (C-Rates) and damaging them, and there is zero maintenance (watering). The BMS is really nice as it takes care of the charging details as well as a high and low voltage cutout relays to protect the batteries and the "monitor" screen is very nice with all the data that it provides.

As always, I'd like to have more... maybe a 20,000 watt hour bank and 4,000 watts of solar?!?!?

For full-timing use, it is a fairly easy decision to go with lithium. Doing an apples to apples comparison is difficult but if you can get close, it is easy to see that Lithium is the way to go. One must compare actual usable hours, expected life (charge cycles), as well as how 'hard' you plan to run them. Its just that initial investment that is tough.

The only negative that I can think of is a shore/generator battery charger. I do not currently have one as there are no good ones available - yet. All of my charging is from solar and this has worked just fine for fourteen months. Still, I keep looking (and pinging the company from which I purchased the system). There are some options but none are plug and forget, as I would like. There are many folks with no/limited solar using lithium so they must be charging from shore power so there must be something available. Maybe they are abusing their investment?? I don't know, never been a priority so I've never spent significant time on it. Maybe there are more options for 12V lithium chargers than there are 24V (as I need).

I've run the new air conditioning from battery and it works just great! I also run a Samsung residential refrigerator 24x7, Samsung microwave/convection oven, NuWave induction cooktop, electric coffee maker, TV, Dish Wally receiver, lights, water pump, vent fans, laptop/phone chargers, CPAP machine, cordless drill/tools, band saw, radial arm saw, soldier iron, cell booster/amplifier, and all the other little things that one has around the house that requires electricity.

For comparison sake, to achieve the same usable Ah with 6V GC (golf cart) batteries one would need 14 batteries. That would weigh something around 850 lbs before building a rack system to hold all that weight. All of the interconnect cables would be interesting, watering them would be an all day project! One would still be limited by C-Rate (both charge and discharge) and a string this long has some other issues that present some challenges/limitations.
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Old 08-08-2018, 02:03 AM   #15
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I've just laid down a small fortune on Lithium batteries from Battle Born Batteries (https://battlebornbatteries.com/prod...tle-born-kits/).

I'm taking my Skoolie down to Argentina and living in it full time and don't want to have to worry about discharge levels. So I'm paying more, to be lazy.
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