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Old 12-27-2021, 12:31 PM   #121
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I've had a fire start from factory install under the seat.

Fat passenger, old worn seat, sprungs shorted across the terminals

Horsehair fumes, out in the desert near Uluru.

Fun times!!

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Old 12-27-2021, 12:34 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaFamily1 View Post
You need to acknowledge this.
LOL

I'm not going to insist you admit you're fear mongering


willing to just let it be...
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Old 12-27-2021, 01:02 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaFamily1 View Post
You can not say that it will INDEFINITELY be safe even in EVERY ventilated case, because the evidence suggests that it can happen then too.
This is what people are so prone to nowadays- taking generalizations and turning them into absolutes. Saying something is _generally_ safe is not the same as saying / implying something is _absolutely_ safe. We don't need to make caricature of the original argument to make points against it... the points have already been made.

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Originally Posted by VaFamily1 View Post
You need to acknowledge this.
Went a little too far here, I think. At worst I'd say john's original wording was bad- people jumped on it, many smelling blood in the water, not exactly the purest of motives imo.

Keep in mind that one can be right about something and simultaneously make a fool of themselves in communication of the ideas- you're saying he's devaluing the thread but are you so sure you're not doing the same?

Keep it civil, people.
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Old 12-28-2021, 02:46 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by VaFamily1 View Post
Either you aren't paying attention or your belief in your experience has blinded you. There are thousands of documented cases, some of which have been mentioned in this thread, where injury has occurred in a ventilated situation. So it is YOU who are "just wrong". Again, THE POINT IS that THE BENEFITS DO NOT OUTWEIGH THE RISKS. You can not say that it will INDEFINITELY be safe even in EVERY ventilated case, because the evidence suggests that it can happen then too. You need to acknowledge this. But by all means feel free to continue devaluing the thread by beating the dead horse of your logic here. Cheers!

I don't want to jump into this fray, but I've got one thing to say and then I'm out...
I'd be inclined to believe that the vast majority, if not every single one, of those 'thousands' of documented cases you mention can be attributed in some way shape or form to ignorance, or neglect.
If you want to run a power station in a moving vehicle, you'd better know what you're doing.
And if you want to keep running it safely, you better keep up on monitoring & maintenance.
The question of whether the benefit outweight the risks can only be answered by the person implementing the system.
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Old 12-28-2021, 02:48 PM   #125
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Sigh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Obviously if you are happy to treat your FLA batteries as if they are propane tanks, then you should do that.

I am just saying that it is safe to not do so, as long as the space is properly ventilated.
I really hope no one follows your advice.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
Everything can be dangerous if you're dumb enough to push it beyond it's operating envelope...

Vent the gasses properly, and operate the system properly, and no issues will arise.
YES. Exactly. But not everyone, especially new people to battery technology, can or will understand this. Therefore, the risks should be explained and not dismissed off hand as complete "poppycock and balderdash" (I think those were the terms used - can't remember who it was).


Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
LOL

I'm not going to insist you admit you're fear mongering


willing to just let it be...
Hmmmm...IF that were true then why haven't you dropped it by now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
I've had a fire start from factory install under the seat.

Fat passenger, old worn seat, sprungs shorted across the terminals

Horsehair fumes, out in the desert near Uluru.

Fun times!!
Thank You for finally acknowledging this. All I was asking for. LOL


Quote:
Originally Posted by kazetsukai View Post
This is what people are so prone to nowadays- taking generalizations and turning them into absolutes. Saying something is _generally_ safe is not the same as saying / implying something is _absolutely_ safe. We don't need to make caricature of the original argument to make points against it... the points have already been made.
Wasn't really trying to do this. But you make a very good point. In this case storing or mounting lead acid batteries in a passenger compartment or living space is not absolutely safe. It can be generally safe if installed correctly but even a correct installation doesn't account for contingencies with the components, and lead acid is riskier in those cases. I understand the risks and choose not to do so. Someone else who does choose to do so ,feeling perfectly confident, should feel free as such but should not encourage others to dismiss potential safety warnings or hazards. THAT was actually my point, and John was doing just that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kazetsukai View Post
...you're saying he's devaluing the thread but are you so sure you're not doing the same?
Ok, I'll admit...not ENTIRELY sure. But, if he had simply responded with something like "I disagree with you", after having tried to explain his position (which I had no trouble grasping in the first place), and moved on I wouldn't have made that assertion. But alas, it's the internet, and there's always an axe to grind. Sigh...


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Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
I now declare this horse sufficiently dead
LOL! I highly doubt it. But I will walk away with my beating stick and stop participating.
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Old 12-28-2021, 02:50 PM   #126
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Couldn't agree more

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus View Post
I don't want to jump into this fray, but I've got one thing to say and then I'm out...
I'd be inclined to believe that the vast majority, if not every single one, of those 'thousands' of documented cases you mention can be attributed in some way shape or form to ignorance, or neglect.
If you want to run a power station in a moving vehicle, you'd better know what you're doing.
And if you want to keep running it safely, you better keep up on monitoring & maintenance.
The question of whether the benefit outweight the risks can only be answered by the person implementing the system.
I think this statement says it all. Couldn't agree more. Thank You
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Old 12-28-2021, 05:45 PM   #127
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I also agree with that wording.

Of course shorting across battery posts is a completely separate issue from the "dead horse" gassing issue being discussed.

I have also put my stick away on that issue.
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Old 12-29-2021, 07:16 PM   #128
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