MD3060 2001 Int 3000 Wires Bus Running but No Light To Digital Shifter
Hello Skoolie Friends,
I recently purchased an international/amtran 3000 with Allison MD3060 and Amtran DT466e. Got it for $800 due to extensive vandalism to windows and missing batteries... mechanically the bus seems fine because engine runs however the digital push button selector for the Allison does not light up.
I am hoping someone can help direct me to the correct repair based off symptoms and my report of the obvious damage however keep in mind the damage done beneath this bus is likely not a commonly seen issue and I am not aware of how these components would normally appear. The fact the issue is causing common symptoms I think could help.... so
1. The only way we get the bus running is by jumping power straight to the starter relay directly from the battery (which likely means the relays are not all communicating effectively or something?)
2.There was a 2-3 gauge white wire that runs in a casing with a slightly thicker red wire the entire length of the bus that was clipped and hanging beneath the bus after it was vandalized. (anyone know what that wire does or where it connects in the rear of the bus?) We currently have grounded this wire to the negative post of one of the batteries
3.The gray harness on the ECU was also damaged as all three harnesses seemed to have been ripped from ECU somewhat violently. We repaired the damaged pins realigned the bent pins and put it all back together to no avail.
4. There are more inconsistencies in how we have everything set up right now, in attempts to work around seemingly missing components however, the above info seems most relevant and Ill keep my eye out for questions asking for details.
Ultimately, the main symptoms are the necessity to jump power to starter relay, check trans light in dash and no light (not even flicker) in Allison digital push button selector.
oh yeah and this bus must move from where it is by tomorrow at 2pm or I am going to have some issues from local authorities....
I recently purchased an international/amtran 3000 with Allison MD3060 and Amtran DT466e. Got it for $800 due to extensive vandalism to windows and missing batteries...
Great deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FREELOVERADICALS
oh yeah and this bus must move from where it is by tomorrow at 2pm or I am going to have some issues from local authorities....
Fuuuuuuudge. I can't help you with anything mechanical, but I have four windows that may fit your bus.
So, you can get the bus running by hotwiring I take it. I assume you had the key on and over to start position?
Your terminology makes me wonder.
Did you apply power to the starter solenoid maybe and not the starter relay? Two separate items here.
When the starter relay is energized by turning the key to start, that connects the starter solenoid briefly.
I would think you jumped the starter solenoid which is a whole lot simpler than the relay to physically do that.
That being the case I would sap the starter relay for an equal and try to start engine again.
I too had a similar experience, dead dark shift panel that is!
First, stop trying to start the bus by taking shortcuts, you may make a mistake and might make things worse.
Second, welcome to the forum, this place has a lot of good people willing to help you out. Some of these folks are super knowledgeable!
Third, please fill out you user profile so other who want to chime in can see your info.
That being all said and done,
First place to look at, in the battery box on the red wire you should find two fuses. These fuses supply power to your TCM, transmission control module.
Check and replace if necessary. It that fixed your problem, great!
If not then time to do some reading and get familiar with your transmission and it components.
Since your bus does start we will assume for now the ECM, engine control module, is working so no need to go there.
If your two fuses are good and your push pad is still dead you need to check for voltage and continuity at the female plug at the shifter. Some minor dash disassembly required.
Follow the instructions here on how to test.
Here is a link, one that I used to start my dead dark panel repair. Very informative and very brief instructions on how to troubleshoot both the WTEC 2 & WTEC 3 systems. https://www.transmissioninstruments....oubleshooting/
A hand made drawing of the female plug and pinouts also uploaded.
When troubleshooting DEAD systems first thing to check for is your supply voltage, batteries and fuses first.
In your case I would then verify that that voltage is making it to the push pad. If not, troubleshoot your wiring, TCM to push pad.
NO power, no workie!
It is way to early to say your TCM is bad or if your VIM is bad, need to make sure power supply is good first.
On my RE Amtran, the VIM is the big black box in the engine compartment where the remote start switch is.
Your TCM should be located passenger side between the transmission and the frame.
Please read all the info I provided and most importantly, download and save in case you break down on the road somewhere.
Keep us posted on your progress and good luck.
PS.
I am not 100% sure on this because I have only had one bad transmission experience so far but, as far as I can tell, even if you TCM is bad the push pad should still light up if it sees the proper VCC supply voltage. If this is true then you can pull trouble codes from the push pad and maybe get a better idea on what is going on.
We Have tried switching/replacing relays to no avail.
We have a mechanic from the local school district coming by tonight to help us for a couple hours to help trouble shooting with the issue.
Unfortunately, we are missing one of those fuses you (ED) describe in your post for the ecu and perhaps more parts but its hard to know. If you would know anywhere we could find pictures of what the connections for ecu, battery terminals, etc. should look like that would be very helpful.
We ran through the diagnostic for testing the ecu and my buddy who has been helping me troubleshoot electrical thought the ecu was dead because we were not getting any power from pin 3 to chassis.
I am pretty sure, especially after meeting with a mechanic today our problem has something to do with the neutral relay because we are getting power into it but it doesn't seem to switch over.
The gray ECM connector gets no voltage at 11 but it does on 16.
Additionally we were getting voltage except for the "N" (5volt reference) and no light to shifter.
Now we are trying to find a complete wiring diagram for this bus to see if the vandals ripped anything out that we are yet to replace.
Thank you again and let me know if you have any more advice!
we gotta get this thing moved by wednesday morning.
Let me help simplify things just a bit.
You confused me just a bit when you mention ECU or ECM.
Both these designation describe the engine computer and not the transmission computer.
Your bus has 2 computers. since the engine does start when you jump it at the starter we will assume you engine computer is just fine.
You say you have voltage on one side of the neutral relay. That is good! But for the neutral relay to work it MUST communicate with the transmission computer!
This communication will not occur at all if your selector panel is dead, does not light up!
FUSES - at the positive terminal of the battery you will find the big fat red wire that goes to the starter. You should also find two smaller wires that have a blade fuse holder attached. There should be two wires with two fuses. Do not look past the battery box for this.
ALSO, very important, do not unplug and plug in the wiring harness connector at the transmission computer without first removing those fuses!
High probability of damage to the computer can occur, so I am told.
Where to start.
Yes first check the fuses then, you will need to do some disassembly of the dash right under the push pad panel. You want to find the cable that comes from the push panel. Within two feet of the panel there is a round connector.
Unplug this connector and on the female side is where you need to be absolutely sure you find your supply voltage to the push pad.
If there is no voltage then the push pad cannot communicate with the transmission computer and bus will not start!
Use the "Female plug to dash pad" drawing I attached in my first post.
It is a hand drawn pic of the pinouts to the female plug you need to test!
Don't waste valuable time by not first checking to see if you have this supply voltage present at this location (push pad).
If you do have supply voltage here then check your grounds!
Even if the transmission computer is fried, you should still find supply voltage at this location for the push pad to light up and be able to communicate with the transmission computer.
You may also have to plug and unplug any and all connectors found going back from the push pad to the transmission and computer. If you have bad or dirty contacts within the connectors, that would cause lack of communication from the push pad to the trans/computer.
If you review the trans troubleshooting manual you will find all the necessary wiring diagrams for the transmission communications.
FOLLOW THIS PROCEDURE...IT IS REALLY ON POINT !! Follow the instructions here on how to test.
Here is a link, one that I used to start my dead dark panel repair. Very informative and very brief instructions on how to troubleshoot both the WTEC 2 & WTEC 3 systems. https://www.transmissioninstruments....oubleshooting/
Your goal should be to make the push pad light up, then test to see if you can start bus with the key!
I might be wrong when saying that push pad should light up if TCM is bad. After re-reading the troubleshooting tips from transmissioninstruments it appears that the pad could stay dark if TCM is fried. You will have to continue on to see if this holds true.
That said, I took some pics this morning for you. You initially mentioned two extra wire that were hanging, a red and white one. Take notice on my pic, there are two wire here, one red and one white. The red one is power and the white one is ground. The red one has 2 inline blade fuse holders.
I thought those pads light up with a 0 or a - on the screen if they have power but cant communicate to the TCM as opposed to staying dark. the 0 or - shows that it has power. but the data link isnt up. a fried TCM would definitely not bring up the data link.
-Christopher
Hey Ed, sorry maybe I should be more specific, the schematic does say there should be something there for 16 this bus just doesn't have it so we're trying to figure why there is a factory plug-in and not selector power wire as schematic says there should be on the black connector at pin 16
thanks again
also we've checked our two fuses for the TCM and they are good but we are looking at the bus and schematic to figure out where the ground wire comes from and I can't quite tell in the photo you sent of your battery compartment .
when you guys are talking ECU. are you meaning the ENGINE ECM or the TRANS TCM? I have all the navistar Pinouts but need to know which computer you are talking about,.
when you guys are talking ECU. are you meaning the ENGINE ECM or the TRANS TCM? I have all the navistar Pinouts but need to know which computer you are talking about,.
It is the TCM we are talking about, the confusion is allison calls it an ecu.
"Then very carefully touch gold plated pins #16 and #32 (on ECU BLACK connector) "
We seem to have pin 32 but not 16. In the place of #16
Is a little plastic blue plug where on 32 is a pin. Anyone know why that would be?
-aaron
Take a look at NOTE "A" on the diagram posted in post #8 of this thread, it will explain why there is a plug in pin 16.
Also, this diagram is much easier to follow and read. This is the one I used to fix my bus.
so this is a 3rd gen TCM that has the 2 connectors? electronic engine?
Thanks for chiming in and giving a hand... I only have had one experience with this tranny, luckily it's really not that hard to understand the wiring diagram!
Linear Mode
