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08-31-2021, 03:59 PM
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#1
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,995
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
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Question about wiring up side clearance lights
So all my lights are hooked up again, except for my side clearance lights. As I understand it, these lights (middle height, halfway towards the back, amber) are supposed to be like a combination of clearance light and turn signal. They should blink with the turn signal, and they should come on when the clearance lights are turned on, and if they're already on with the clearance lights they should blink on and off when the turn signal on that side is turned on.
I am unable to find any way to get them to behave like this with my existing wiring. I have a mass of cut wires coming from my electrical box up front, this consists of all the wires that haven't already been used to feed all the lights in the back (turn signals, backup lights, brake lights, tail lights etc.) and the side clearance lights.
I was experimenting with hooking up a spare LED that I have to some pair of these wires, to try and find the circuits for my side clearance lights. It appears that only one of these wires is "live" with power, although about ten of the wires (including the two white ones that I was hoping were the two returns for these circuits) will complete the circuit and turn the light on. Unfortunately, in all cases the light turns on whether the clearance lights are turned on or not and whether either or both of the turn signals are blinking. The "live" wire is always live if the key is turned on, regardless of what else is happening.
Am I misunderstanding how these two lights are supposed to work? Are they just supposed to be on whenever the key is on? My original lights in the spot were removed very early in the process, and I don't remember whether they were ever working or not.
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08-31-2021, 04:02 PM
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#2
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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All my clearance lights were on their own circuit, not connected to turns at all.
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
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08-31-2021, 04:03 PM
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#3
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,222
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
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I've got a Bluebird, but.....
I have one "center" yellow light in the middle of the side of the bus (both sides). It only flashes with the turn-signals, if I remember correctly.
I'm not with the bus right now, but if I can remember I'll check to make sure I am correct.
__________________
Look at the Sky; look at the River. Isn't it Good?
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08-31-2021, 04:05 PM
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#4
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,995
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc
All my clearance lights were on their own circuit, not connected to turns at all.
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Even your lower side ones? I'm currently training to be a sub bus driver and I'm practicing the pre-trip inspections on the school's near-new C2s, and the side clearance lights on those work as I described, where they blink along with the turn signals on each side. Maybe that's just a C2 thing?
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08-31-2021, 05:41 PM
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#5
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Lubbock TX
Posts: 45
Year: 2004
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3000
Engine: T444E, Allison 2000
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger, 29000lb
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I have a 2003 IH RE200 and my clearance lights do not blink. My bus has one light on each side that blinks. It's also set low at the height of a passenger car window.
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08-31-2021, 05:55 PM
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#6
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,995
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlupr
I have a 2003 IH RE200 and my clearance lights do not blink. My bus has one light on each side that blinks. It's also set low at the height of a passenger car window.
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https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/393.11
I guess these are called "intermediate side marker lamps". It doesn't seem that these are required to blink with the turn signals - so mine ain't gonna, since I can't figure it out anyway.
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08-31-2021, 06:15 PM
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#7
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,222
Year: 1999
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: TC1000 HandyBus
Engine: 5.9L 24V-L6 Cummins ISB
Rated Cap: 26 foot
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When they blink, it helps folks who like to drive and cruise next to you understand you want to move over a lane when they are just forward of the rear bumper and can't see the tail lights blinking. I really like this feature, especially in heavy traffic on the multilane highways in cities. It sucks to try to slow down and let them pass you (especially on the right), someone else just keeps passing, and you are slowing down the traffic, and causing more strain on the motor/tranny to speed back up.
You could always create a circuit that uses a 5-pin relay. With the blinkers off, the relay is off. Feed power from the marker-lights switch through the relay, in at 87a to 30; this is when the relay is "off" and this circuit will function then. When the blinkers are on, the power from the blinker switch (continuous power) should engage the relay (at pin 85, pin 86 to ground), and connect pin 87 to pin 30, and disconnect pin 87a from pin 30. Then also feed the blinker "blink" signal through pin 87. Pin 30 of course leads out to the "center marker/blinker" light. You would need to create this circuit on both sides, using two separate relays.
It's a simple circuit, and if it were my bus, I'd do that. I really like it that much. Just sayin...
__________________
Look at the Sky; look at the River. Isn't it Good?
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08-31-2021, 07:03 PM
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#8
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musigenesis
Even your lower side ones? I'm currently training to be a sub bus driver and I'm practicing the pre-trip inspections on the school's near-new C2s, and the side clearance lights on those work as I described, where they blink along with the turn signals on each side. Maybe that's just a C2 thing?
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Could be a modern change not found on our older buses.
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
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08-31-2021, 08:46 PM
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#9
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Cerrillos, NM
Posts: 393
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: Front Engine
Engine: DT466E
Rated Cap: 72
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I’m drinking a little bit but hear me out on this one:
If you put 12v on the ground side of these lights (instead of ground) and connect the blinker voltage to the other side they should be on all of the time (assuming the blinkers are grounded when they’re ‘off’) but when the blinkers turn on they’ll turn on and off opposite of the blinkers cause 12v on both sides of the lights will be off. I’m not positive that the blinkers ground when they’re off but for some reason I think they might It’s something to check anyway.
If it’s a relay they probably do, but if it’s a bimetal blinker module they may not.
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08-31-2021, 09:53 PM
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#10
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,995
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rffffffff
I’m drinking a little bit but hear me out on this one:
If you put 12v on the ground side of these lights (instead of ground) and connect the blinker voltage to the other side they should be on all of the time (assuming the blinkers are grounded when they’re ‘off’) but when the blinkers turn on they’ll turn on and off opposite of the blinkers cause 12v on both sides of the lights will be off. I’m not positive that the blinkers ground when they’re off but for some reason I think they might It’s something to check anyway.
If it’s a relay they probably do, but if it’s a bimetal blinker module they may not.
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I'm not drinking but I probably should be. I wonder if it's possible that I can't get it to work because it's a LED instead of an incandescent?
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08-31-2021, 11:17 PM
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#11
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Cerrillos, NM
Posts: 393
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: Front Engine
Engine: DT466E
Rated Cap: 72
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It’s possible. I think regular bulbs will work in either polarity but leds only one way. If they’re working the way I talked about it might be reverse polarity from normal and you might have to swap wires. Could be a good idea to test with a regular bulb.
Is there an electrical schematic available for the bus? I’d be happy to look at it.
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09-01-2021, 06:53 AM
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#12
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Fraser Valley British Columbia
Posts: 1,043
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: C7 Cat
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My 07 only has a mid marker light at the roof line, not one halfway up on the body. And like Marc's it is on only, no flash and on a separate rocker switch.
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09-01-2021, 06:59 AM
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#13
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Fraser Valley British Columbia
Posts: 1,043
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: C7 Cat
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Led lights won't flash with many early style flashers, they need a special grounded flasher so that they sense a load on it.
Might be the issue.
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09-01-2021, 07:01 AM
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#14
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Fraser Valley British Columbia
Posts: 1,043
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: C7 Cat
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This might help
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09-01-2021, 07:09 AM
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#15
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,995
Year: 2003
Coachwork: International
Chassis: CE 300
Engine: DT466e
Rated Cap: 65C-43A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar1
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Thanks for this. I think that's almost certainly my problem. I'm just using one of my cheapie 2-LED clearance lights for this.
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09-01-2021, 07:26 AM
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#16
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Fraser Valley British Columbia
Posts: 1,043
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: C7 Cat
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Hope that works, I remembered reading about that somewhere a few weeks ago while trying to figure out my rear light outage.
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09-01-2021, 07:35 AM
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#17
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 3,673
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
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My signal light on the side doesn't blink. I don't think they're supposed to, as they aren't dual filament, and to make them blink would require an interrupter or relay in the circuit, which I don't have.
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09-01-2021, 11:10 AM
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#18
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Cerrillos, NM
Posts: 393
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: Front Engine
Engine: DT466E
Rated Cap: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar1
Led lights won't flash with many early style flashers, they need a special grounded flasher so that they sense a load on it.
Might be the issue.
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This is entirely true however it *may* not be the problem in this case because there are still other incandescent bulbs in circuit so the blink should still blink… the led is just an add on to the circuit. If you change all the bulbs it’s an entirely different story.
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09-01-2021, 11:20 AM
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#19
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Fraser Valley British Columbia
Posts: 1,043
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: C7 Cat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rffffffff
This is entirely true however it *may* not be the problem in this case because there are still other incandescent bulbs in circuit so the blink should still blink… the led is just an add on to the circuit. If you change all the bulbs it’s an entirely different story.
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Excellent catch
Cheers
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09-01-2021, 12:28 PM
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#20
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 3,673
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828
My signal light on the side doesn't blink. I don't think they're supposed to, as they aren't dual filament, and to make them blink would require an interrupter or relay in the circuit, which I don't have.
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Made a mistake. Meant to say illuminate with running lights. It blinks with the signal, but that's it.
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