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Old 03-01-2018, 01:55 PM   #1
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Year: 1983
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Lightbulb Re-design of dashboard INTERNATIONAL 1983!





Noticed none of the lights are working on my current dash or any of the gauges, so had a quick look today by removing the dash...
5hours later, in the process of re-designing another dash and re-wiring it

Im sure some fuses up top are also gone, but theirs some significant water ingress near the fuel guage and inside the laminate of the dash itself.
Its a potential short-circuit/fire hazard so im taking the lot out.

Being in the U.K popping to another scrap yard isn't an option, however i quite fancy retro fitting my own one.

[IMG][/IMG]

I have some new dials and sensors i will be re-wiring in and installing in the MDF sheet.

[IMG][/IMG]

Had no luck in finding a wiring diagram for my International Waye 1983, so have spent the evening tracing back the wires etc.

Plan is to make a new 'wired' in dash, (obviously some of the bulbs etc can be missed out) and i will be replacing the old lamps with new LED versions etc.

Will be installing a GPS speedometer too, in place of the old (yes, i know these don't work as well up and down a slop due to the axis and calculated angle, and yes i know they wont work in tunnels etc) however i really like them, and its quite a simple modern piece of kit.

[IMG][/IMG]

Has anyone has much experience doing something like this or am i the first?


Either way, i will keep you updated, hopefully somone may be able to use this as a guide one day. If i succeed!

CC
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Old 03-01-2018, 03:32 PM   #2
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
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Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
great project!! since my bus is electronic I used the computer feeds for the dash.... ive done what you are doing to your dash with hotrods in the past. I retrofitted digital gauges into the original panel and it looked cool....

first thing i would do is jettisomn that crappy navistar / mylar BS, use reasl connectors... if you have an issue with water use Weather-PaK or metri-Pak connectors so the wiuring stays dry even if a few drops of water get on it...

forget the GPS speedo... use a good electronic speedo... was yours cable driven? i was thinking by 83 you had a spoeed sensor on the transmission that went to 2 wires into your dash... id use a nice VDO or stewart-style speed / odometer gauge. ..

temp / oil pressure / volts, are easy... if you have a tach it may be getting its signal from the alternator.. might have to see what all tachs are out there. but many may be able to do that... for air pressure you can get an electronic gauges and install a sender unit so you dont have a hose going into the bus. you'd likely use 2 of them unless someone makes a 2 channel gauge.

I have used Nordskog (now defunct) and Dakota digital for gauges..

Oil/ Air Pressure Gauges

-Christopher
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Old 03-01-2018, 03:41 PM   #3
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Thanks for the repliy Chris!

Yeah all my gauges are new electronic ones that use a sendor unit and 12v, going to go to all the existing places and replace with the new sensors.

My current rpm gauge and speedo have a cable and inside a square drive which I assume rotates inside the dials to display the speed/rpm.
So far, Found it quite tricky finding a cheaper dial which would connect to it, I have found some adapters from the states that take it from a push fit square drive to a threaded square drive, however I can’t say for certain if they will adapt and then to the new unit.

I didn’t want to sound cheap but I also didn’t want to spend mega bucks on a dial, as I have quite a lot of fixes on the go at the moment which are adding up!
Hence the GPS dial being a cheaper alternative for $100 or so.

(Open to suggestions though if you know of better)

Thanks CC
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Old 03-01-2018, 03:46 PM   #4
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Join Date: May 2009
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
what transmission do you have in your bus? allison 545 or a stick? 643? there were electronic sensors made that fit into the side of the transmission and provide an AC voltage signal... or if your current cable just screws on the transmission you can get a speedo sensor that screws on where the cable did. something along the lines of these ?
Speedometer 8K Pulse Generator

not sure... some GM stuff seems to be the same as allison if thats the transmission you have...
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:23 PM   #5
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Thanks for the reply Cadillac, sorry been super busy to even reply!
Those cables look convenient, will look into them more, as a way of going digital, Iíve noticed my rpm gauge cable doesnít spin in its sleeve, the gauge has never worked but I think changing the cable would fix this?
donít suppose you know any good websites that would stock another cable or have had similar issues with cables not working?

Hard work finding spares for a 83 international!
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Old 03-08-2018, 06:46 PM   #6
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Join Date: May 2009
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Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
wow i never knew the RPM gauge was mechanical!. many Tachs were electric and got their signal from a Tach terminal on the alternator.. im not familiar with the mechanical cable, where it gets its feed from.

if its a standard speedometer style cable.. most of that is standard.. its a square cable in a sleeve.. ive seen them break inside the sleeve... if its not seized up in the sleeve you can replace the square cable (and grease it up good) by pushing a new one through the sleeve.

https://www.amazon.com/ATP-Automotiv.../dp/B000C8TBK0

if the housing sleeve is OK but the cable broke inside you can use the above kit to repair it.

-Christopher
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Old 03-08-2018, 07:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
wow i never knew the RPM gauge was mechanical!. many Tachs were electric and got their signal from a Tach terminal on the alternator.. im not familiar with the mechanical cable, where it gets its feed from.

if its a standard speedometer style cable.. most of that is standard.. its a square cable in a sleeve.. ive seen them break inside the sleeve... if its not seized up in the sleeve you can replace the square cable (and grease it up good) by pushing a new one through the sleeve.

https://www.amazon.com/ATP-Automotiv.../dp/B000C8TBK0

if the housing sleeve is OK but the cable broke inside you can use the above kit to repair it.


-Christopher
Mechanical tachos are common on motorcycles, and they are driven from the camshaft.
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Old 03-08-2018, 07:35 PM   #8
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigg View Post
Mechanical tachos are common on motorcycles, and they are driven from the camshaft.
cool stuff and makes sense on an early diesel to do it that way..
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Old 03-09-2018, 11:42 AM   #9
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Thanks chaps, Iíve had a look and will most likely retro fit a new digital one that reads off the alternator, seen some bit of kit that clamps to the fuel hose too and detects rpm via pulse that way (popular in the marine application) modern technology is pretty impressive.
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Old 04-19-2018, 03:40 PM   #10
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[IMG][/IMG]

So i have been busy with this side project trying to get a new dashboard of some degree working!

I have drilled the holes for all the lights and gauges, then finished off with 3 layers of fiberglass on the rear of the board, the MDF feels as strong as steel now.

The front has been covered with a faux leather skin, and rubber trim.

[IMG][/IMG]

I have drawn up the wiring diagram from tracing the lines from the other, and have wired it in following a similar design, however have had some difficulty when demoing as i will explain!

[IMG][/IMG]

The lights look good in the dark, if i will get them to all work correctly is another story!

[IMG][/IMG]

Had a dummy run today after spending few hours wiring up the old and new loom, made the mistake of getting half the wires back to front with the multihasp, as my drawing was confusing me. Which meant the dash went completely crazy when i trial ran it!

Anyway, ended up re-wiring it by eye, and have had now about 70% success rate with the instruments/lights, so will keep you posted on how it goes.

Have played the safe hand so far as we are moving yard and didn't fancy blowing anything important leaving us stranded. So will resume this once moved!

Thanks! CC
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:39 PM   #11
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Thumbs up

Looks good, breathing life into the ole rig.
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:42 PM   #12
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Nice lookin dash!! I love it!! keeps the spirit of an old rig!!
-Christopher
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:59 PM   #13
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Wish I would've caught this earlier. I have the manuals for international s-series vehicles for 1984, including wiring diagrams iirc. Now I'm not going to copy and print every page for you but if you have specific questions I could've looked them up. I imagine the difference between 83 and 84 wouldn't have been too different, especially seeing as how the dashboards interchange. I also have a spare cluster tucked away in case it's needed, but I've never seen one in as bad as what you have.
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Old 04-20-2018, 11:33 AM   #14
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Hey, no worries man! Really good to know you have a manual like that. Would love to know where I could buy one! Very hard now knowing that’s 40odd years past!
I’ll keep you in mind should I need anything, thanks a lot!
CC
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Old 04-20-2018, 12:37 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCousins View Post
Hey, no worries man! Really good to know you have a manual like that. Would love to know where I could buy one! Very hard now knowing thatís 40odd years past!
Iíll keep you in mind should I need anything, thanks a lot!
CC
https://www.binderbooks.com/1978-90%...s%20Trucks.htm

Service manuals are found all the way at the bottom. They're not cheap but if you're looking.

I bought mine off ebay for a lot less.
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Old 04-20-2018, 06:14 PM   #16
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Engine: Detroit 6V-92T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
wow i never knew the RPM gauge was mechanical!. many Tachs were electric and got their signal from a Tach terminal on the alternator.. im not familiar with the mechanical cable, where it gets its feed from.
In addition to those, there are universal diesel tachometers that use a magnetic pickup on the alternator.

Check out this youtube video showing one being installed on an old Czech tractor: go over to youtube and add this after the .com: /watch?v=hiEc9zKagHI (or search for "UNIVERSAL DIESEL TACHOMETERS & Why They're Easier Than You Think!!!" by ChuckE2009).

However, they are expensive, so it would be advisable to check if you have a 'W' terminal on your alternator. That is an A/C signal to feed electronic tachs.

If you don't have that terminal, you could add one...
dieseltruckresource dot com /forums/1st-gen-ram-all-topics-93/where-connect-tach-alternator-277307/
(or search Google for "dieseltruckresource Where to connect tach in alternator")

...sorry, can't post links yet!
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Old 04-21-2018, 05:12 PM   #17
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Join Date: Dec 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
https://www.binderbooks.com/1978-90%...s%20Trucks.htm

Service manuals are found all the way at the bottom. They're not cheap but if you're looking.

I bought mine off ebay for a lot less.
Fantastic thanks a lot!!
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Old 04-21-2018, 05:12 PM   #18
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Join Date: Dec 2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Likwid_Kaneo View Post
In addition to those, there are universal diesel tachometers that use a magnetic pickup on the alternator.

Check out this youtube video showing one being installed on an old Czech tractor: go over to youtube and add this after the .com: /watch?v=hiEc9zKagHI (or search for "UNIVERSAL DIESEL TACHOMETERS & Why They're Easier Than You Think!!!" by ChuckE2009).

However, they are expensive, so it would be advisable to check if you have a 'W' terminal on your alternator. That is an A/C signal to feed electronic tachs.

If you don't have that terminal, you could add one...
dieseltruckresource dot com /forums/1st-gen-ram-all-topics-93/where-connect-tach-alternator-277307/
(or search Google for "dieseltruckresource Where to connect tach in alternator")

...sorry, can't post links yet!
Also very handy, thanks again! Will be looking into this
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Old 04-21-2018, 05:38 PM   #19
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Engine: Detroit 6V-92T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCousins View Post
Also very handy, thanks again! Will be looking into this
You're welcome... I also meant to write that the W terminal output signal is AC (as in Alternating Current), not A/C (as in Air Con :P )

Also, since I can post links now:

If you don't have that terminal, you could add one...

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Old 04-21-2018, 07:26 PM   #20
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One more tach option is the "Tiny Tach". No magnets. Picks up the pulses through the fuel lines.
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