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Old 12-18-2020, 10:58 AM   #1
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Rocker switch to push button

I know this is probably a fairly simple fix and there's probably a cheap part out there that i can get but I'm having trouble googling it. I want to change my pneumatic door switch from a rocker to a push button.

Currently the switch rests in neutral. Rocking it up sends a signal to open side of the door and the switch kicks back to neutral. Rocking down sends a signal to the close side. The air valves have little orange LEDs to let me know they're getting the electric signal, as long as I'm holding the switch in either up or down position the valve is getting power.

I want to change this so it's push to change the current state. If it's open and i push the button it sends the signal to the close side, if it's closed and i want to open, same thing.

My goal here is to have three of these buttons, one by the driver, one on the inside of the door and one on the outside that uses an NFC key fob as a security measure. I may want to have a seconds switch outside that i can enable from inside so if we're parked somewhere safe we don't have to worry about the fob.

I plan on looking into different ways to keep air available to the door and will likely set up a dedicated tank with it's own compressor and maybe a check valve between the new tank and the current bus system, that way the smaller compressor isn't filling the whole bus system as i bleed pressure between runs.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated!
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Old 12-19-2020, 01:31 AM   #2
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Interesting idea. I am sure there are many others on this forum that will like to see how you solve this.
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Old 12-19-2020, 08:01 AM   #3
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Not sure I follow completely.
There must be some electronics/ relays involved to keep the door forced open or forced close when the rocker switch is in neutral. Like a flip flop circuitry..( old school terminology)

Study the rocker switch.. if it is only a switch with three wires or two individual switches the you can duplicate that with pushbutton switches.
The problem arises ..what happens if you press both switches at the same time.

If pushbutton is the dream the maybe look in machinery on of switches on drill presses/ lathe and such. They mostly have a green and red button.


Don't get you kid, cat or dog in that door while some one else plays with the buttons. Plenty of horror movies about that.

Our bus has sensors in the rubber seal that disables the closing mechanism if something gets stuck in between. Some garage door have a similar safety feature.

Good luck

Johan
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Old 12-19-2020, 08:15 AM   #4
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Just off the top of my head it seems like there are two possibilities. One would be with a microcontroller and some relays. The other and probably simplest would be with some limit switches on the door to sense open/closed and some relays. That one would only work if door is all the way open/closed. I don't think there is a suitable pushbutton switch that would do it all.

I have something similar on my door lock using a linear actuator. It does however use a switch DPDT switch. You could use a relay for that part.
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Old 12-19-2020, 08:20 AM   #5
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A trip sensor when the door is closing sounds like a really good idea. I'll have to think on how to do that.

The air pressure in the canister is what keeps the door open or closed. The valve mechanism only get l gets power while the rocker is activated. As to what happens if more than one button is pushed at a time maybe i could write them in series as a "normally closed" and when there's a signal interruption it changes the door position? But honestly that doesn't sound safe if I'm driving down the road and a wire cummed l comes loose, then my door is going to open and I'll not be able to shut it electronically...
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Old 12-19-2020, 09:51 AM   #6
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In Dory ,a city bus, the door strip has a hose and a pneumatic switch attached. So if the door profile gets squeezed the pressure inside sets the sensor of..

A master switch could disconnect the other switches.

I think the solution to your problem starts with electric understanding of your current door switch.

I thought about a similar construction in Dory but you need air pressure all the time.. that takes energy .. so I abandoned that idea.

Johan
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Old 12-19-2020, 10:13 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblack5 View Post
In Dory ,a city bus, the door strip has a hose and a pneumatic switch attached. So if the door profile gets squeezed the pressure inside sets the sensor of..

A master switch could disconnect the other switches.

I think the solution to your problem starts with electric understanding of your current door switch.

I thought about a similar construction in Dory but you need air pressure all the time.. that takes energy .. so I abandoned that idea.

Johan
I have constant air pressure against the valve to hold the door shut while driving and similarly constant pressure to hold it open. If the bus doesn't have air i can move the door freely so i installed a mechanical lock. In the second picture the two bits of plastic in the bottom corners with writing on them receive the electric signal and tell the air valve in to change position the the piston in the central tube changes place. 20201120_125430.jpg20201129_174804.jpg
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Old 12-19-2020, 10:23 AM   #8
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Yes that is nice, so you rocker switch gives a pulse to the solenoid airvalve. How does the airvalve stay engaged to keep pressure to keep the door open. / Close.
Is that circuitry in the valve mechanism or is there some electronics in between or does the rocker switch has a latch that keeps the solenoid valve energised.

What does the door do when turn the power off or disconnect the battery?

Johan
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Old 12-19-2020, 10:26 AM   #9
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Oh I forgot, so Dory has micro switches on the door for open and close. So for our turn switch I send a pulse to open or close and then the micro switch takes it over.. so a latch system to keep the solenoid activated..

A second micro switch is there to avoid that I drive with the door open. It interface with the engine computer.

Johan
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Old 12-19-2020, 10:39 AM   #10
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I'm pretty sure what keeps the door in either position all mechanical with air pressure. I've got a valve that will let me switch the door from service to emergency and it releases the air from the piston, but when that's closed the only time i can manually move the door is when the bus lost its pressure.

I have no such lockout with my door, I've tried at low speeds and i can open and close it while driving.

That's why i got the idea that if i can toggle the signal from one valve to the other the push button should work. If there was some kind of relay that changes position each time it gets a signal i can wire all the push buttons into it.
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Old 12-19-2020, 07:17 PM   #11
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So I used this for my door and some interior lights:
https://www.amazon.com/Solidremote-1...97&s=hi&sr=1-3

It's pretty great for what I need. The contacts are double throw so you can wire in manual switches like a three way light switch in a house if you have double throw switches to use, just gotta run three wires to it instead of two. I can turn on the lights with the remote and then turn them off with my switch and then turn them back on with the remote, for instance.

the alternating button presses having alternating functions seems not worth it to me, I would just use a double throw rocker like you have, but if you want to accomplish that without a controller I think you can use one of these: https://www.amazon.com/Trigger-Board...8426627&sr=8-3

these flip flop with a button press but are latching, so they stay on... so you would have to run the switched input of this thing back through your pushbutton so the output voltage only appears when you have the button held down. Assuming it's not powered from that input in any way I think it would be a pretty clean solution.
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Old 12-19-2020, 07:21 PM   #12
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I had considered the remote option and it was my fault back plan, the other link you shared might be my ticket, I'll have to look more into it. Thank you!
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Old 12-19-2020, 07:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aswallie View Post
I had considered the remote option and it was my fault back plan, the other link you shared might be my ticket, I'll have to look more into it. Thank you!
if you need help with the wiring diagram let me know, I looked into it a little more and that little board will work fine, assuming I have the concept of what you need right. the "common" contact on the relay side has to be powered from the momentary switch which is getting the old power to the rocker, the other two sides are to the 'closed' and 'open' outputs from the rocker, and the little board should get 12v and ground from the bus and 12v should go to the middle pin when the switch is pressed.

I think I would use a double pole pushbutton so the relay power and trigger power are isolated out of habit but it's probably unnecessary.
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Old 12-20-2020, 04:24 PM   #14
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I might have to take you up on that. I actually took electrical classes in college and thought i knew this stuff but I'm either having an off day and just can't wrap my head around this or less of it stuck than i remember. Maybe i should sit down with pen and paper and lay out what i have in mind.
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Old 12-20-2020, 05:00 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aswallie View Post
I might have to take you up on that. I actually took electrical classes in college and thought i knew this stuff but I'm either having an off day and just can't wrap my head around this or less of it stuck than i remember. Maybe i should sit down with pen and paper and lay out what i have in mind.
See if this helps:
https://imgur.com/a/T6wbzgC
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Old 12-20-2020, 05:33 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by rffffffff View Post
See if this helps:
https://imgur.com/a/T6wbzgC
Actually, yes, it does. So not only will the switch alternate what output each press it should only send a signal while the button is pressed?
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Old 12-20-2020, 05:38 PM   #17
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yeah, that's why you have to power the C contact with the momentary, otherwise it'll leave 12V on the door mechanism permanently, which it sounds like is NOT what you want based on what I read originally. Obviously you should double check exactly how it operates before taking it all apart.

The only concern that I have with it is if somehow voltage is fed back from the door mech to the relay it'll put voltage on the trigger all the time which would make the whole thing not work, but I doubt that's the case.

Also, I'm assuming the trigger will work with a 12V pulse but that's a little unclear from amazon, I would verify that before wiring it all up.
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Old 12-29-2020, 09:20 AM   #18
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Hi.....I kinda looked over the entire thing and saw kinda like a rocker switch and indicated you the bat type flip switch, at that point thought perhaps since like a rocker switch however like a press button thought possibly you may an implied a transitory press button activity in a real rocker switch style, at that point after that I misconstrued what you said and demonstrated you a flip rocker switch, at that point at long last get to the real "press button" flip switch that numerous answers later, after CPUWiz called attention to it after the primary answer I made I actually continued failing to understand the situation, haha. I'm the douche bag.
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Old 03-05-2021, 05:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rffffffff View Post
So I used this for my door and some interior lights:
https://www.amazon.com/Solidremote-1...97&s=hi&sr=1-3

It's pretty great for what I need. The contacts are double throw so you can wire in manual switches like a three way light switch in a house if you have double throw switches to use, just gotta run three wires to it instead of two. I can turn on the lights with the remote and then turn them off with my switch and then turn them back on with the remote, for instance.

the alternating button presses having alternating functions seems not worth it to me, I would just use a double throw rocker like you have, but if you want to accomplish that without a controller I think you can use one of these: https://www.amazon.com/Trigger-Board...8426627&sr=8-3

these flip flop with a button press but are latching, so they stay on... so you would have to run the switched input of this thing back through your pushbutton so the output voltage only appears when you have the button held down. Assuming it's not powered from that input in any way I think it would be a pretty clean solution.
Thanks for the advice!

https://imgur.com/a/2kSSshR
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Old 03-06-2021, 01:12 AM   #20
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This is so out of my wheel house when it comes to this switch type or that. Yet, what I think you are trying to do is simply be able to open and close the door from three different locations (Drivers area, inside next to the door and outside of the bus (hidden button or FOB)). Is that correct?

If so, here are my ideas.
1) Use electric connections with an electric solenoid to open and close the door. If you want to put safety pressure or light interrupted switches it seems it would be easier to do so in an all electric setup. This removes your need for constant air pressure. You could put a key controlled switch on the outside of the bus to close/lock it.

2) Completely remove the bus door and install a regular door. Most bus doors don't seal well causing weather, wind and cold in, and heat out.

Remember, while the US spent untold $ determining how to make a pen write in space, the Russians solved the problem with a pencil.

Keep it simple.

Best of luck.
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