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Old 08-31-2015, 12:26 AM   #1
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Shore power

I have my socket for the side of the bus. It's a 50a 3 pin thing.

I have a breaker box

The plan is to run a 50A cable from the socket to the breaker box in conduit. I have lots of corners to go around so that'll be fun!
uploadfromtaptalk1440998386340.jpg
I figure I'll have 4 sockets, 2 @ 15a and 2 @ 10a. The main breaker will be changed according to the power supply so 50a where possible, 30a or 15a where applicable.

The 4 sockets will be mounted on the front of the beam under the microwave.

The rest of the bus will be 12v supplied from 2 x 12v 105ah marine batteries.

Thoughts?
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Old 08-31-2015, 02:10 AM   #2
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No one installs 10 amp 120 volt plugs.

I would never install anything less than 15 amp. Most mine will be 20 amp.

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Old 08-31-2015, 04:14 AM   #3
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Your breakers don't have to add up to the main breaker. It is all about wire size protection. (Well, that and shocks/shorts.)
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:12 AM   #4
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keep this in mind

50 amp service is actually 2 110V lines coming in, one will have 50 amps available to use and the other will have 50 amps available (these numbers are for demonstration)

I would run a 50 amp cord to a breaker box, have 1 line feed one side of the box and line 2 feed other side, this will allow you to take full advantage of the power when available and needed

I actually have the bus zoned so I have 50 amps to use in the bedroom and kitchen area, and when plugged into 50 amp this allows me to use a second ac or heater in the front area

use basic 15 amp receptacles and breakers from box store (they can be replaced anywhere)

if you pick up a 30 to 50 adapter, and plug your shore cord into it, and then plug into a 30 amp electrical box, this will allow all circuits in the bus to have power, just like when 50 is hooked (now don,t overload it or you will trip the pedestal)

now plug a 15 amp adapter into your 30 amp adapter, this will let you plug into a 110 house circuit and power all outlets (you only will have 15 amps availible to use before you pop breaker though

at the house this is what I do, I can run one AC and a couple lights no problems, if I need to use microwave for heating coffee or something? I turn off AC and use microwave

I have a bunch of pictures in my build with this stuff, and thanks to redbear, I also have 220V to heat my 40 gallon water heater when plugged into 50 amp (remeber 50 amp is 2 110V), and a flip of a switch allows me to use it on 110V
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:32 AM   #5
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I did hear that 30A was more common at campsites.
Using two wires for 50A seems somewhat of a duct tape fixes everything kludge mind, the whole US electrical system looks like an amateurish kludge to me.
I'm not really sure how this breaker box is going to work or if it's just plain missing bits. I've taken the door and cover off and can't see any way of adding a second live wire. I can't see where the live, neutral and earth wires connect as there seems to be just one connector strip.uploadfromtaptalk1441027714529.jpg

My outside socket is this.uploadfromtaptalk1441027765963.jpg
If that lot won't do 50A because of the kludged US electrical system then I guess I'll work with 30A on the 30A circuit. That at least should be just the standard 3 wires.
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Old 08-31-2015, 09:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephod_beeblebrox2 View Post
I did hear that 30A was more common at campsites.
Using two wires for 50A seems somewhat of a duct tape fixes everything kludge mind, the whole US electrical system looks like an amateurish kludge to me.
I'm not really sure how this breaker box is going to work or if it's just plain missing bits. I've taken the door and cover off and can't see any way of adding a second live wire. I can't see where the live, neutral and earth wires connect as there seems to be just one connector strip.Attachment 8414

My outside socket is this.Attachment 8415
If that lot won't do 50A because of the kludged US electrical system then I guess I'll work with 30A on the 30A circuit. That at least should be just the standard 3 wires.
what?

first off never connect neutral and ground in your bus, keep them separate

notice the rightside with all the little screws? this is for your neutrals from your receptacles white wire in your 30 amp cord

notice the 2 big screws above and center this is where your hot will go into choose one or the other I would use the left side this will allow 2 double breakers and 4 wires to go to receptacles

as for the clunky duct tape fix...whatever, the reason is they can have every other 30 amp pole using alternating hot leads to distribute power more efficiently

And 220 can use smaller wire to carry the load, and now any campsite built in the last 10 or so years has 50 amp normally

State parks and very old Camp sites may not though
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Old 08-31-2015, 09:35 AM   #7
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Since you will only have 1 hot coming in you need to either choose hot 1 or hot 2 connection(hot 2 allows more breakers)

or you could use a jumper between the two (just watch for excess load, you only have 30 amps to use)

and the ground I normally just get a strip connector and use it (similar to the neutral bar)

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Old 08-31-2015, 09:42 AM   #8
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Of course I had to see what Kludge meant

A kludge (or kluge) (/klʌdʒ/, /kluːʒ/, /kluːdʒ/) is a workaround or quick-and-dirty solution that is clumsy, inelegant, difficult to extend and hard to maintain, yet an effective and quick solution to a problem. It is a rough synonym to the term "jury rig." This term is used in diverse fields such as computer science, aerospace engineering, internet slang and evolutionary neuroscience.


What in the world are you associating with this?

Using 50 amp power????

or not knowing the purpose of 220V and 110V and how they work together???
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Old 08-31-2015, 09:43 AM   #9
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Where do I put the main breaker? This is a 6 breaker box.
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Old 08-31-2015, 09:56 AM   #10
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Of course I had to see what Kludge meant

A kludge (or kluge) (/klʌdʒ/, /kluːʒ/, /kluːdʒ/) is a workaround or quick-and-dirty solution that is clumsy, inelegant, difficult to extend and hard to maintain, yet an effective and quick solution to a problem. It is a rough synonym to the term "jury rig." This term is used in diverse fields such as computer science, aerospace engineering, internet slang and evolutionary neuroscience.


What in the world are you associating with this?

Using 50 amp power????

or not knowing the purpose of 220V and 110V and how they work together???
The entire US electrical system...
Twisting wires and using wire nuts.... Kooky and dangerous
120v - wasteful because you need heavier cables than you'd need with 240.
Two wires rigged together to provide 220v... Wacky and very wasteful.

Much of what passes for code in the US would fail utterly any UK electrical inspection.

All UK connections between wires are made in insulated junction boxes. All electrical sockets have individual switches. All electrical plugs have individual fuses. All the house circuits go to a breaker box with two lighting circuits - one for upstairs and one for downstairs. Each room has a different breaker for the sockets. Sockets are not permitted in bathrooms or toilets and not within 5 feet of the kitchen sink. Sockets must be between 6 and 18 inches from the ground unless they're over a countertop. All circuits are 13A save for the cooker circuit which us 30A.
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Old 08-31-2015, 09:59 AM   #11
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use the main breaker on the power pole at campsite

from there your power cable will connect to your inputs (circled above in red)

take your "double" breakers and they clip into/on the aluminum stand offs


Pick up 3 half size double breakers




I used 15 amp breakers because I used 12 ga wire and it's good for 20 amps so I undersized breaker
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Old 08-31-2015, 10:04 AM   #12
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I need to put some kind of main breaker so that I don't accidentally take 30A off a 15A house cable. Maybe I need a second breaker box though I thought a 6 breaker box would do it.
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Old 08-31-2015, 10:13 AM   #13
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Well, if your plugged into a house circuit, you will use that breaker as the control breaker, it will only allow 15 amps total from it so you will be good to go

make sure that a fridges and freezers etc are not on it, I only have 2 15 amp receptacles at the house I can use, rest have to much other crap on them

so just like the 30/50 you use the breakers installed to regulate your source
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Old 08-31-2015, 10:17 AM   #14
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I have a 50A socket with one of each flavor of wire. Do I take the live and put it to hot 1 and 2. When I encounter a 50A supply do I connect the two hots to feed them into my single live wire?
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Old 08-31-2015, 10:43 AM   #15
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get one of these for less than $10


Mighty Cord RV15AM30AF Park Power Adapter 12" 15M-RV30F

and one of these for less than $20


30Amp Male to 50amp Female RV Cord Dogbone Adapter 12'' | eBay

and a 50 amp cord like this

or a socket


how ever you do this bit

NU-CORD 94552 25-Feet 50-Amp Rv Cord, Loose End - Rakuten.com

I BOUGHT ALL MY STUFF ON AMAZON OR EBAY, LOCAL STORES WILL HAVE IT ALSO

so now connect:
white to neutral bar (isolated bar)
green to ground bar (add on bar attached to metal box)
black to hot
red to hot

this will energize all 6 circuit breakers

on 50 amp service you will have 50 amp or so on one "leg" 3 breakers
and 50 amps on the 2nd "leg" 3 breakers

when you put on the 30 amp to 50 amp adapter, you now have 30 amps divided between all 6 circuit breakers

then when you attach the 15 amp to the 30 amp you will have 15 amps divided between all 6 breakers


disclaimer: this is my thinking and logic and there are other ways to do this, this is easy and quick in my mind


also remember if hooked to 50 amp power you also have a 30 amp available and a couple 15 amps on the pole still for say an outdoor ice maker or TV or music and lights (w/o using your 50 available) I never said I was green


also hard wiring only works if you have a place to store the cable, if not then you will need a socket and matching plug to put on your cable

underbelly bins work good for cable storage

I just have a 40# cord I pull out every time
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Old 08-31-2015, 11:50 AM   #16
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Much of what passes for code in the US would fail utterly any UK electrical inspection.
Maybe you can ship the bus to England so they could properly wire your bus since it's so screw up here.
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:12 PM   #17
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I just noticed in OP that you have a 50 amp 3 pin plug, that will not work in this instance, you will need to change to a 4 pin/wire setup of stick with just 30 amp service with this plug

check this out



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Old 08-31-2015, 12:30 PM   #18
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wouldn't a 50amp 3 wire connection hot skin the bus using ground as the neutral?
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:39 PM   #19
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wouldn't a 50amp 3 wire connection hot skin the bus using ground as the neutral?
I think there may of been some confusion, I believe he has a 3 wire plug rated at 50 amps and NOT a 50 amp RV plug
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Old 08-31-2015, 01:20 PM   #20
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My outside socket is this.Attachment 8415
This looks like the "NEMA 10-50" style. It's intended to be used with the two angled blades each connected to one 120 volt hot leg and the one straight blade (parallel to the yoke) grounded. I'm really not sure whether this third pin is properly called "ground" or "neutral" but in any case this style isn't appropriate for most new installations. If you need 240 volt service, get a 4-pole connector.

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wouldn't a 50amp 3 wire connection hot skin the bus using ground as the neutral?
turf has identified the reason why those 3-pole connectors aren't used for split 240 volt (US style) connections anymore. If all's working correctly then no you won't get a hot skin, not by more than a volt or two anyway. But there's no fault protection, either. That's why the ground and neutral are wired separately now.

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Where do I put the main breaker? This is a 6 breaker box.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timelord View Post
Your breakers don't have to add up to the main breaker. It is all about wire size protection. (Well, that and shocks/shorts.)
You could install a main breaker, and perhaps might to avoid the nuisance of tripping an upstream breaker and having to ask your camping hosts for help finding and resetting it. It isn't necessary though. This is a "sub-panel" and is designed to be wired directly to the supply wires; it's understood a breaker would be installed at the far end of the supply wires to protect them. If you want to have a "main" here too you can; just choose a breaker that is rated for reverse use and connect the incoming supply to its load/output terminal. It could snap into any position in the box, but mark it "MAIN DISCONNECT" since its function won't be obvious once the cover is installed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bansil View Post
bansil did a great job identifying the terminals in the box. One thing to check: be sure that the bus bar marked "neutral" doesn't have any electrical connection to the metal housing. Sometimes they do, and in this case any such connection should be broken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bansil View Post
I just noticed in OP that you have a 50 amp 3 pin plug, that will not work in this instance, you will need to change to a 4 pin/wire setup of stick with just 30 amp service with this plug
That's good advice. Based on your other threads, it seems your expected electric consumption will be very low, so the traditional TT-30 style plug would be a great choice. Its one hot lead can be wired to both hot bus bars in that panel so that breakers in all positions draw from it.
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