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Old 07-06-2023, 11:38 AM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Shore power and wire size

Im trying to get most of the work done and paying a electrician finish it. So Im, new to electrical, havent ran the main power line to the breaker to the outlet yet but I'm not sure if 30 amps is correct. 10ga
What Im looking at is
12.6 amp fridge, 14ish start up
15 amp mini split
Does this mean if I run anything more, pass 30 amp total, it will be a problem?

Already got 12awg marine ran which is good for the mini split and I hope for the water heater I havent got yet, 8 or 10 gallon, or I got to redo it

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Old 07-06-2023, 11:45 AM   #2
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I would run #8 wire, it's good for 50 amps and you won't have as much voltage drop under load. In a commercial environment (my field) you never exceed 80% of the wire rating for a continuous load. A 15a mini split is fine on a 20a breaker but anything over 16a would require a step up in sizes.
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Old 07-06-2023, 12:35 PM   #3
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Wire size to the bus from the "shore power" receptacle or wire size from your internal breaker box to your various appliances?
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Old 07-06-2023, 07:22 PM   #4
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12 awg to the breaker box to each outlet, 6 total.
The box list 100 amps max and I'm at 95, 1 20s and 5 15s
The a.c. and fridge will be the only things left on always. Diesel heater for the winter.
Water heater Ill just turn on 30 mins before shower or if it drops below freezing. That leaves kitchen stuff, tv, gaming, led lights and fan. So I got to figure out those amps just too

Does the green screw just run down the the frame with a solid #6 or is 4-6 awg fine?

I havent ran anything yet to the breaker to shore power, which is good cuz I was wrong.

I got my project off another guy that gave up on it, it was a fire hazard. I was just hoping the 30amp receptacle and shore power cable was correct and save me some money.
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Old 07-06-2023, 10:23 PM   #5
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🔥 You Wrote, "Fire Hazard" ?!🤯

I'm confident we (myself & other members) can answer all of your electrical installation questions.

I have several concerns of my own, as well as a few safeguards to offer. Please save us some time and post a few photos of the panel, as it's currently installed. Post pix of your installation (recepticals, wireruns, lights) too.


Hint #1:
The Green Bondng screw ought not be installed,
at all.

Hint #2:
The sum of the branch circuits is NOT correlated to the Main Breaker's size.⤵

The Main's size is determined by the Ampacity of the Service Entry Condictor (feeder wire) size which you are asking about.



A 100A Main Breaker, ought to be fed using Cu #1 - #3, depending on your wire type & the ambient temperature of the raceway.

If you choose smaller wire to feed this panel, derate the panel by installing an appropriately sized Main Breaker in place of the 100A, currently installed.

Post photos for more help. Let's make it failsafe.

Meanwhile, please peruse my Electrical tutorial, below
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Old 07-20-2023, 10:43 AM   #6
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Dont worry, I am way to paranoid of burning down my home to cheap out on getting a pro to do it. I just don't want to be completely ignorant of what's going on.

The amps I posted are wrong. Also fridge companies fking refuse to tell you the actually amps/watts and keep repeating the estimated yearly kw. It starts off higher(10-13) and drops off at a lower(3-6) duty cycle
Fridge 1.5-6 amps
Air fryer 12.5 amps
Water heater 16.7 amps [removed]
Mini split 7-13.5 amps
Xbox 1-2.2
Tv 0.6-1 amp
Sound bar .8
Led lights .2-.8
10' fan 0.2
Phone charger .5-2.4

This seems to be everything. Lack of funds is going to keep me parked for a long time so Im looking into a solar heater for heating water and room to hook up a propane water heater if needed.
Your #1
I was looking at other post but didn't see which set up they had. Off grid, shore or both. So Im stupid.
#2
Panel isnt hooked up, or the outlets, it lists 100amp max. I understand the feeder wire dictates the amps but I'm assuming if I run more amps, than the box's max, it will cause extra heat. When overheat for long enuff causes a fire. So I got 8 panel breaker box that is 125 amps and without using math, list above, I am well under 100 amps.

Also theres no shore power yet, 110ish ft away. No feeder wire or holes drilled, in the bus walls, for 30 or 50 amp plug. Just 6 holes for the pvc outlet. 12/3 marine wire ran from outlet to where the breaker box will be.

My question/point is (A) I need to choose 30 or 50 amps. (B)Future plans is off grid so the feeder wire and in/out plug in to the shore should be closer to where the batter bank is going to be?
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Old 07-20-2023, 10:51 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrd Scheit View Post
Also fridge companies fking refuse to tell you the actually amps/watts and keep repeating the estimated yearly kw. It starts off higher(10-13) and drops off at a lower(3-6) duty cycle
If they provided numbers they'd be next to useless anyway. It all depends on the external environment it sits in, what / how much is inside it, what temp you have it set at (assuming it's adjustable), and the manner in which it's used (door open / door closed).

To get a ballpark figure for our fridge, I just took amp draw with the compressor on (published), and assumed a 50% duty cycle. I think that should be an overestimation when you average out the use in different locales / situations, but only time will tell. We designed the system to not be married to any particular appliance, so we have wiggle-room regardless.

If I had a fridge without a reliable published spec, I'd measure it, if possible. Even then probably most accurate to measure to confirm.
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Old 07-20-2023, 12:27 PM   #8
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I would seriously consider just going with a 50a shore power hook-up. You can always adapt down to whatever source you have available. .
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Old 07-20-2023, 01:00 PM   #9
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Warning: Quick Response

Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrd Scheit View Post
Dont worry, I am way to paranoid of burning down my home to cheap out on getting a pro to do it. I just don't want to be completely ignorant of what's going on.

(.........)

Your #1
I was looking at other post but didn't see which set up they had. Off grid, shore or both. So Im stupid.

#2
Panel isnt hooked up, or the outlets, it lists 100amp max. I understand the feeder wire dictates the amps...
Note: Feeder wire does NOT dictate amperage. The load (appliances, devices, etc) dictates the amperage.


(I added some text underlined & edited ypur statement for easy understanding -DeMac)

...but I'm assuming if I run more amps, than the feeder wire max, it will cause extra heat ,melting the service wire's insulation. When overheat for long enuff causes a fire. So I installed the feeder into a completed conduit run & got 8 panel breaker box that is 125 amps and without using math, list above, I am well under 100 amps.

Note: each breaker protects each branch circuit. The sum of the branch breakers has absolutely ZERO relation to the Main breaker's size. No cause or effect. The sole purpose of the Main is to prevent Overloading of the feeder wire or Service Entry Conductor.

You could legitimately install eight 100 amp breaker into that panel, with only one 100 amp Main protecting the 100A feeder and 100A panel. Fine.
Non-coincidental Loads are normal.

The Main breaker MUST be equal to or smaller than the Feeder wire's rated amperage (size) . Use a 50A/2P breaker. Two #6 hot, one #6 neutral, one # 8 ground for feeder wire, inside of conduit.

The panel you (already) purchaced will be better served with two hots or you WILL overload the single 30A/120v wire, (based in consumption/demand list provided)

---------------

Also theres no shore power yet, 110ish ft away. No feeder wire or holes drilled, in the bus walls, for 30 or 50 amp plug. Just 6 holes for the pvc outlet. 12/3 marine wire ran from outlet to where the breaker box will be.

Note: 125 feet?
🤯what-the-what?!
No, Sir. Please, dig a trench, bury pvc pipe, use #4 inside for 50A (@125ft), install a power pedestal with a disconnecting means & a Ground Rodor two) near skoolie.


My question/point is (A) I need to choose 30 or 50 amps. (B)Future plans is off grid so the feeder wire and in/out plug in to the shore should be closer to where the batter bank is going to be?
Byrd,
I tried to make my response quick and simple, but it reads kinda crappy. I do mean well & I am here to help you. The more questions you continue to ask, the better understanding you will receive. You are doing well.
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Old 07-20-2023, 10:52 PM   #10
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For DC loads download the Blue Sea Circuit Wizard, for AC stuff Id rely on the NEC
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Old 07-21-2023, 10:10 AM   #11
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Good to ask these questions, because it's essential you get the electrical right. Can you share some pictures?

If you're taking this on the road, and you plan on an electric water heater, your road experience may be diminished by the a)lack of 50A hookups available along your route and b)the number of places you want to camp that may exclude skoolies.
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Old 07-23-2023, 10:42 AM   #12
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So fridge companies just list yearly average so they dont get complains 24/7, lol. Im sure most people dont leave proper air gaps inside or outside so the yearly kw is a better choice for them.

50a will be better for me, no reason to cheap out now.

DeMac thanks for all the info. The reason its that far out is all the shade I get from the trees and its out of view from the street. That wire will be 2 feet deep, got a Kubota with a bucket so it will be a bit easier than a shovel. Are those copper rods 8-10ft in the ground? I found some that look like 5ft 5/8 for $8

As much as I would like to travel, I dont think it will happen in this bus. I got 8 years of trucking and I know the cost of rolling down the highway. I understand why people travel in vans or live in one down by the river. Ill get some pictures after its a bit cleaner.
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Old 07-23-2023, 02:08 PM   #13
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Grounding & Bonding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrd Scheit View Post
So fridge companies just list yearly average so they dont get complains 24/7, lol. Im sure most people dont leave proper air gaps inside or outside so the yearly kw is a better choice for them.

50a will be better for me, no reason to cheap out now.

DeMac thanks for all the info. The reason its that far out is all the shade I get from the trees and its out of view from the street. That wire will be 2 feet deep, got a Kubota with a bucket so it will be a bit easier than a shovel. Are those copper rods 8-10ft in the ground? I found some that look like 5ft 5/8 for $8

As much as I would like to travel, I dont think it will happen in this bus.
--------------------
Yes, shade. Me too.



We dug our power & water by hand, though.🤪


For the ground rods, I'd buy the $14ish version at HD. 8ft x 5/8" rods & 5/8"clamps, aka:'wedding band'. #6 Cu solid. Both installed at the power pedestal.

Bond the bus's interior panel, to the bus frame, using the same #6 torqued to a Ground Lug which is bolted to the bus's clean (sand or grind) metal frame.

Following the aformentioned will yield a bus, which is Grounded to the Earth, only through the SO cord or whip connecting it to the pedestal's grounding rod.

For a permanent location, one might additionally extend the solid #6 from the bus's frame, to a second Ground Rod, close to the interior panel, above. To ground the structure to the Earth more directly.
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Old 07-23-2023, 06:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byrd Scheit View Post
So fridge companies just list yearly average so they dont get complains 24/7, lol. Im sure most people dont leave proper air gaps inside or outside so the yearly kw is a better choice for them.
There's certainly a standardized way of measuring refrigerator performance. It would be necessary in order to allow for energy star ratings. But the variables used in testing are likely not those you're going to encounter IRL, particularly in the type of installations we're discussing. So you can use these ratings to compare one appliance against another. You just can't use them to accurately determine how much energy they'll consume in actual use. That's not the fault of the manufacturers. That's just the reality of the situation.
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