Shore Power - Converter Question

[kazetsukai]

Originally Posted by dj2109

Should the DIN breaker before the converter be 50amps (for the shore) or 15amps (for the converter)?

I mentioned this: 20A. Again, depending on your warranty status, I'd wire in a 20A outlet off the DIN breaker box instead of direct wiring the converter.

[JDOnTheGo]

This has become rather dangerous. Breakers and fuses are sized to match/protect the wire/cable - they have nothing to do with the component being supplied. Please guys... don't end up killing yourselves or someone else.

[kazetsukai]

Originally Posted by JDOnTheGo

Breakers and fuses are sized to match/protect the wire/cable - they have nothing to do with the component being supplied.

This is right.



I'd say it is probably safe to install breakers smaller than the run of cable supports.
I sized the mini split's breaker at 10A, because if the split is drawing 10A (or more), that's indicative of a problem regardless of whether the run is good for 30A. Its the only device that will ever be on that run and its specifications put it at just under 5A, I don't see a safety argument for installing a 30A breaker for the run.

With outlets, you always size to the outlet/cable run in part because one can plug anything into them, be it LED lights or convection ovens. Sizing for the maximum safe operating load in that case makes sense, there's no other load rating to go by.

[JDOnTheGo]

Originally Posted by kazetsukai

I'd say it is probably safe to install breakers smaller than the run of cable supports.

That fits with "protect the wire/cable." Telling someone to install X breaker without knowing anything about the wire/cable is dangerous.

[kazetsukai]

Originally Posted by JDOnTheGo

That fits with "protect the wire/cable." Telling someone to install X breaker without knowing anything about the wire/cable is dangerous.

This is also correct. It is easy to make assumptions and forget about this.



I assume this means the following:


In the case of wiring an outlet, I would use a 20A outlet, 20A rated cabling and a 20A breaker.



In the direct wiring use case, you will want to make sure that the breaker is sized no higher than the rating of the cable used (obtain this from the manufacturer), and that the wiring from the distribution block to the breaker is of identical rating to the rest of the cable.

[john61ct]

A breaker can be used to limit the current on a circuit for whatever reason to fewer amps than what the wire carries

nothing wrong with using grossly **over** spec'd wiring relative to the CP.

[Booyah45828]

Originally Posted by john61ct

nothing wrong with using grossly **over** spec'd wiring relative to the CP.

I do that often.

Auto manufacturers are notorious for spec'ing just heavy enough wire to pass the designed current. The problem is after the wiring ages a few years it acts as kind of a resistor in the circuit. I repair a lot of issues with headlights and other loaded circuits due to high voltage drop on the circuit causing resistance and heat. And the wiring typically will "look" fine, it just isn't thick enough.

Deal with that crap long enough and you'll find yourself automatically overbuilding the circuits.

[kazetsukai]

Originally Posted by Booyah45828

I do that often.

Same here. I often at least double the rating.

[dj2109]

So to the layman, what exactly are you guys suggesting?

[JDOnTheGo]

Originally Posted by dj2109

So to the layman, what exactly are you guys suggesting?

Education. Learning and understanding what you are building is important (to creating something that is safe and functions as desired).

IMO, much of this thread reads like the 'learning' is being avoided (e.g. just tell me what parts to buy and hook up). Someone can you all the right parts and it can still be installed poorly/dangerously. Some good reading suggestions were given in your other thread. All that said, I understand that asking questions here is part of the learning process. To that end, I would suggest starting from an overall design perspective and then working into the details. Given the number of times this topic comes up, I'm sure many could benefit from such a thread.

[kazetsukai]

Originally Posted by JDOnTheGo

Education. Learning and understanding what you are building is important (to creating something that is safe and functions as desired).

IMO, much of this thread reads like the 'learning' is being avoided (e.g. just tell me what parts to buy and hook up).

+100


This is why I keep saying to start with the base and do this all piecemeal. All-in-one-shot, experience or not, is not realistic.

[john61ct]

Money can substitute, but need to seek out referrals, lots of "professionals" are pretty clueless and/or overcharge for shoddy work.

AC-to-DC skills are more common though as opposed to true off-grid "mostly-solar living" technology

[Booyah45828]

Originally Posted by JDOnTheGo

Education. Learning and understanding what you are building is important (to creating something that is safe and functions as desired).

IMO, much of this thread reads like the 'learning' is being avoided (e.g. just tell me what parts to buy and hook up). Someone can you all the right parts and it can still be installed poorly/dangerously. Some good reading suggestions were given in your other thread. All that said, I understand that asking questions here is part of the learning process. To that end, I would suggest starting from an overall design perspective and then working into the details. Given the number of times this topic comes up, I'm sure many could benefit from such a thread.

I'm in agreement with this.

Based off this post and the one you made about the 50 amp subpanel. I don't think you really have a grasp on what you're doing here.

You need to figure out what you're all going to power and the source of that power. That is step 1. After that, you can draw diagrams, get referrals, and purchase the equipment to make your design a reality.

The box you have pictured will only charge the batteries from shore or generator power. It will not create ac electric from a battery source, you need an inverter for that. So your converter needs to be wired in a manner that it won't be consuming ac power created by the inverter. That means you'll have to have some sort of transfer switch so that those two devices have their ac power isolated from each other.

[dj2109]

Yes I understand how the system works in it’s entirety. I already have a 6000 watt inverter.

I understand I’m new. I’m not asking anyone to build this for me. Your terminology doesn’t make sense to the novice. I’m simply asking for an explanation and suggestions and what I should buy.

Mostly everything is already at my house ready to be setup... I’m just waiting for the transfer switch in the mail...

[dj2109]

Trust me, I’m doing constant on and offline research so I don’t blow up my bus.

[dj2109]

Originally Posted by kazetsukai

You can either run a single outlet off the barrier strip via the single breaker shown in the diagram, and then plug the converter into that, or strip the input plug.

How would you go about doing this? What size wire would I need?

[dzl_]

Originally Posted by dj2109

So to the layman, what exactly are you guys suggesting?

Originally Posted by JDOnTheGo

Education. Learning and understanding what you are building is important (to creating something that is safe and functions as desired).

IMO, much of this thread reads like the 'learning' is being avoided (e.g. just tell me what parts to buy and hook up). Someone can you all the right parts and it can still be installed poorly/dangerously. Some good reading suggestions were given in your other thread. All that said, I understand that asking questions here is part of the learning process. To that end, I would suggest starting from an overall design perspective and then working into the details. Given the number of times this topic comes up, I'm sure many could benefit from such a thread.

This times 1,000,000x

Casually reading through this thread, I came away with the same impression. Its making me nervous.

With electrical especially, you want to understand the "why" and the "how" at least on a very basic conceptual level. Many of questions being asked are very specific "what" question that aren't going to help you "learn to fish" or give you the knowledge you need to be confident in your system or your decisions or any future modifications/repairs. And credit, where credit is due, you are also asking some good 'why' and 'how' questions, and Kazetsukai has provided an amazing amount of helpful advice and recommendations.

For instance, instead of "what breaker do I need for x situation" frame the question as "how do I determine what breaker to use?" then try to answer the initial question yourself, and then ask for confirmation/followup questions if you need further guidance or reassurance that you understand correctly.

Speaking newbie to newbie, I know its a lot to wrap your head around at first and a bit daunting, but spending a few hours wrapping your head around the basic concepts, electrical fundamentals, and basics of design really pays off in the long run.

At the very least I think its suuuuuper useful to spend the time to understand:
- The basics of electricity, electrical units, and some simple math.
- The basics of how to properly size and locate circuit protection and size wire, and the relationship between the two.

For me, understanding what voltage is (electrical "pressure" or a "pushing force") what amperes are (a unit of "current" or a "flow rate") and the relationship between the two (Voltage = Current x Resistance) as well as their relationship to Power (Watts), (Watts = Volts x Amps). This is the video that really made things click conceptually for me, here are some more bite-sized and more basic videos. Amy from the Altestore also has a lot of good videos for learning about solar and electricity in general.

Regarding circuit protection, I found this video super helpful in understanding the basic concepts as well as some specifics, and this powerpoint (and accompanying discussion) has a lot of good info too.