Skoolie Electrician/Mechanic Wanted - North Georgia

[Pnutty]

Hello all -

Apologies if this query already exists in the forum, I could not locate if it does.

I am looking for someone to clean up the un-necessary wiring in my 2007 IC CE300 bus. Bus is parked in zip 30512, Blairsville GA. Can actually provide overnight stay(s) in our cabin where the bus is parked (currently bus will not turnover so wiring clean up needs to take place where bus is parked). Any takers or anyone know of someone, please let me know. Thanks!

[Rivetboy]

Does your bus have charged batteries? Are the roof vents secured (if alarmed). Are all of the doors closed and locked? Does anything work, such as the headlites? Does it go click when you turn on the key or try to start it?

Did it run in the past?

Sorry, I am in CA.

[Rivetboy]

Sorry, those were not the pictures I was trying to post.

[Pnutty]

Thank you for responding @rivetboy.

Here's where I'm at so far with no crank issue, and the story that goes with it.
Filled up diesel at the Blueridge station. Climbed back in the bus and turned the key and nothing but a single click from the electrical panel under the driver window. No issues whatsoever prior to this, bus was running like a champ.

Had it towed, $250, to a local diesel shop, It was Sunday, closed. Left the bus on their lot, called next day.

Spoke with mechanic, they replaced the starter solenoid (barrel looking solenoid) on the electrical panel. Bus turned over and started.

Went to pick up the bus, started right up, drove it where it is parked now, tried to start the bus the next day, same exact issue. Single click.

I replaced the starter solenoid again, and the accessory solenoid right next to the starter solenoid. Nothing.

I replaced the ignition switch. Nothing.

I have 2 commercial 1000 cranking amp batteries, barely 1.5 years old, fully charged and tested.

Checked all fuses and relays along the top of edge of the firewall in engine bay. All good.

Checked all fuses and relays in electrical panel. All good.

Had another mechanic come out to check the starter, they were at the bus for 3 hours and all they had to say is "how'd them wires get into a mess like that" I'm assuming they didn't find anything wrong with the starter, so rule that out I guess.

I'm totally lost on what it could be now. No interlock issues prior to stopping for fuel when it wouldn't turn over. This is why I am willing to pay someone to come work on the wiring, and while doing so hopefully find the issue that is preventing the bus from turning over.

Headlights, brake lights, turn signals, powered mirrors, dash gauges, all work. There was one odd thing that occurred after filling up at the diesel station and the bus would not turnover, the "water in fuel" light would come on when I would turn the key. After the starter solenoid was replaced the first time and the bus cranked, that light no longer came on.

I have not run any diagnostics on it. Was going to purchase a device as soon as I can figure out what the heck to get to test a school bus.

The bus has been sitting since October. I had disconnected the batteries to make movement of cables and clean the posts. I tried to start it again, same single click, but this time the red (P) parking light came on whereas I don't recall ever seeing that light come on. I have shifted in and out of neutral to make sure it was in neutral.

Would no air in the tanks prevent the bus from turning over?

I read in another post about someone having the same bus and they kept referring to a "rear" electrical panel with an ignition switch built in? I do not have that on my bus, almost certain, unless it is completely hidden some where.

Under the dash near the shifter, etc., there is a black toggle switch, not labeled, no idea what it is for. It is a momentary switch. I switched it while turning the key to see if it affected anything, it did not. I later read somewhere someone had a mysterious switch like that as well and they had determined there's was associated with the ABS?

That's my rant! Appreciate any feedback, solutions, hands on re-wiring!!

[Rivetboy]

You certainly have been thorough. Air or not would not hinder starting. It really just sounds like a bad ground . There is usually a strap to frame to engine ground and the negative battery terminal ground bond. I would check all of them. Good luck.

[turf]

when someone swears its not their battery, its usually their battery.

check the batteries with a meter, less than 12.1 is dead.

clicking is usually a sign of a dead battery.

year and half old batteries mean nothing. new can be dead too.

i'd start charging a battery before i threw money at it.

[Pnutty]

Thanks Turf. After reading through so many posts about similar issues, the first thing I did was have the batteries tested. They checked out fine. In my earlier post I mentioned exactly what was occurring when trying to start the bus. Hopefully people are reading all of my post and not just skimming it. The part about the parking brake light and water in fuel light. Those are things that never lit up before until now. Something is shorting something somewhere.

When I turn the key, the solenoid in the electrical panel clicks one time, not multiple times like you'd experience when trying to crank a car with low power.

At this point I'd be willing to shell out $1k plus supplies for someone to come re-wire the bus.

[turf]

cool pnutty,

you can send the check to my home addy! i'll pm it to ya. thanks.

did you charge the battery? what is this test you speak of? is it 12.1v or better on a voltmeter?

your bus was running fine, why did you you start changing parts?

what kind of mechanic stares at a starter for 3 hours and says he doesnt know?

a no start no crank is caused by your battery or your interlocks, or the damage you did since it was last running.

the lights on your dash are probably not the cause, but you should drain the water from the fuel filter.

charge your battery, close the hatches lock the doors, find the sleeping child button, and put the rig in neutral.

multple clicks - low volts
single click - interlock

if its been sitting more than a week, then its both.

a no crank at a fuel stop is always an interlock.

good luck

[DeMac]

Originally Posted by Pnutty

Thanks Turf. After reading through so many posts about similar issues, the first thing I did was have the batteries tested. They checked out fine. In my earlier post I mentioned exactly what was occurring when trying to start the bus. Hopefully people are reading all of my post and not just skimming it. The part about the parking brake light and water in fuel light. Those are things that never lit up before until now. Something is shorting something somewhere.

When I turn the key, the solenoid in the electrical panel clicks one time, not multiple times like you'd experience when trying to crank a car with low power.

At this point I'd be willing to shell out $1k plus supplies for someone to come re-wire the bus.

While there are a variety of symptoms, its tough to eliminate ir select a particular componants as a candidate for replacement. The copper wire deterioration and needing replacement is slim? Got rats?
A more likely cause would be disconnected wires from the interlock system. High resistance ground. Low voltage OR amperage from the battery. Relays & circuit boards are a possibility, but unlikely.

Of you can convince an auto Electrician to look at it, he will charge you by the hour, with no guarantee to supply the correct diagnose or repair or decode the proprietary bus logic boards.

Interlock systems have bricked many skoolies. Rewiring without checking that the bus starts between each and every change, is exactly how to brick a bus.

200 views & counting. No one else is chiming in because we are agreeing with the answers being provided.

[mhaisten]

I had a similar problem once. My bus is old and all mechanical. After hours of testing everything, I found a bad crimp connection at the start relay. Only when I pulled on every wire did I find it.

[Rucker]

Originally Posted by Pnutty

Thank you for responding @rivetboy.

<snip>

Spoke with mechanic, they replaced the starter solenoid (barrel looking solenoid) on the electrical panel. Bus turned over and started.

Went to pick up the bus, started right up, drove it where it is parked now, tried to start the bus the next day, same exact issue. Single click.

I replaced the starter solenoid again, and the accessory solenoid right next to the starter solenoid. Nothing.

I replaced the ignition switch. Nothing.

<snip>

Headlights, brake lights, turn signals, powered mirrors, dash gauges, all work. There was one odd thing that occurred after filling up at the diesel station and the bus would not turnover, the "water in fuel" light would come on when I would turn the key. After the starter solenoid was replaced the first time and the bus cranked, that light no longer came on.

<snip>

I'm sure this is beyond frustrating. Clearly the problem was not the starter solenoid or ignition switch.

Did you made any modifications to any of the interlock systems yet, or are they still farm fresh systems?

And are you able to check every door and system with an interlock to ensure they are secured?

Since you were smart to start by checking the battery it doesn't seem like this is a charge issue.

To rule out a short, does the battery drain over the course of a day or two?

And do you have any documentation on the interlocks? Diagrams or such?

This smells like an intermittent short or defective connection in the interlock wiring, switches, relays, or perhaps a ground connection that is preventing the relays from firing up (thus enabling the starter circuit).

If you know what you're looking at you can check voltage at the relays that enable the starter circuit, and/or pull and test each relay.

I just had my handicapped ramp fail because of a 20 year old dual safety switch failing--intermittently--.

The first time it was an intermittent ground from the freakin' parking brake interlock, a crappy little momentary contact switch.

My thought: although you're supposed to start with a fully functioning electrical system before removing the interlocks (systematically, one at a time, checking functionality in between), maybe it's worth considering systematically disabling the interlocks...

Anyone else think that's a very bad idea?

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

with your year model bus.
just throwing this out there?
already been talk about this in the last few weeks.
are you pressing on the brake pedal when turning the key?

[Rivetboy]

I cut a few wires and now my bus won't start Help!

[Pnutty]

Originally Posted by Rucker

I'm sure this is beyond frustrating. Clearly the problem was not the starter solenoid or ignition switch.

Did you made any modifications to any of the interlock systems yet, or are they still farm fresh systems?

And are you able to check every door and system with an interlock to ensure they are secured?

Since you were smart to start by checking the battery it doesn't seem like this is a charge issue.

To rule out a short, does the battery drain over the course of a day or two?

And do you have any documentation on the interlocks? Diagrams or such?

This smells like an intermittent short or defective connection in the interlock wiring, switches, relays, or perhaps a ground connection that is preventing the relays from firing up (thus enabling the starter circuit).

If you know what you're looking at you can check voltage at the relays that enable the starter circuit, and/or pull and test each relay.

I just had my handicapped ramp fail because of a 20 year old dual safety switch failing--intermittently--.

The first time it was an intermittent ground from the freakin' parking brake interlock, a crappy little momentary contact switch.

My thought: although you're supposed to start with a fully functioning electrical system before removing the interlocks (systematically, one at a time, checking functionality in between), maybe it's worth considering systematically disabling the interlocks...

Anyone else think that's a very bad idea?

The only interlock issue I had encountered was the removal of the wheelchair lift, the interlock would not allow the parking/air brake to release. Figured out the solenoid to remove and problem solved. The other interlocks I am aware of would be the rear door, the roof hatch, the emergency exit windows. All those were disconnected long ago and bus had been running fine. What other interlocks are there?

Relays (that are visible) were checked with a "Relay Buddy" relay checker device.

How is it that when a mechanic replaced the starter solenoid in the electrical panel that the bus started right up, I drove it to park it, tried to start it again and same exact issue as before, turn the key, single click from the same solenoid in the panel and nothing? No turning over. All dash lights come on.

I'm not a mechanic and not an electrician, as well as I don't have time to spend an entire day or two checking every single wire on the bus. My job doesn't afford me that kind of availability. Hence my search to pay someone to investigate.

The foot on the brake while turning the key I do not believe I have tried that. But know I never had to do that before.

I read in another forum thread with the same bus found a single wire with a tiny capacitor or something like that, that rubbed loose off the connector and that was their issue. How in the hell do you find something like that?!

[Pnutty]

@Rivetboy My mess is not quite that bad! Hope that wasn't really all yours!?

[Pnutty]

Originally Posted by turf

cool pnutty,

you can send the check to my home addy! i'll pm it to ya. thanks.

did you charge the battery? what is this test you speak of? is it 12.1v or better on a voltmeter?

your bus was running fine, why did you you start changing parts?

what kind of mechanic stares at a starter for 3 hours and says he doesnt know?

a no start no crank is caused by your battery or your interlocks, or the damage you did since it was last running.

the lights on your dash are probably not the cause, but you should drain the water from the fuel filter.

charge your battery, close the hatches lock the doors, find the sleeping child button, and put the rig in neutral.

multple clicks - low volts
single click - interlock

if its been sitting more than a week, then its both.

a no crank at a fuel stop is always an interlock.

good luck

Thanks again. Pardon my ignorance here, but, stopped to re-fuel, wouldn't turn-over when trying to start, mechanic replaced the barrel like starter solenoid in the electrical panel, bus started right up. Then the next time I tried to start, same exact issue as before. How could that be related to an interlock?

[Rucker]

Those are the key interlocks. Since you've already defeated all of them I'm now wondering if it might be related to your shifter. What condition is it in? Sloppy, or pretty tight, or something in between?

[Rivetboy]

Originally Posted by Pnutty

Thanks again. Pardon my ignorance here, but, stopped to re-fuel, wouldn't turn-over when trying to start, mechanic replaced the barrel like starter solenoid in the electrical panel, bus started right up. Then the next time I tried to start, same exact issue as before. How could that be related to an interlock?

Because that mystery poor connection got jiggled when he was changing components or inspecting. Intermittent due to bad ground, poorly adjusted interlock switch, a bad or corroded crimp. Lots of thing to fail. I have taken a rubber hammer to panels to find the mystery open or intermittent circuit. What does a meter say for voltage at the solenoid when you try to crank it?

[Rivetboy]

This also does not take into account a failing or poor connection neutral safety switch if so equipped. Also, have you gone underneath and disconnected the solenoid from and put 12 volts right to the solenoid?

[Pnutty]

Originally Posted by Rucker

Those are the key interlocks. Since you've already defeated all of them I'm now wondering if it might be related to your shifter. What condition is it in? Sloppy, or pretty tight, or something in between?

So... This is where both you and Rivetboy speak about Neutral Safety switch, which I have no idea what that is. What I wrote earlier about seeing the (P) light up in red on the dash, I don't ever remember seeing that light come on before. I have air brakes, and the bus has the big yellow square you pull on or push in to activate/deactivate. The shifter does not have a PARK, it's only R - N - D - 4 - 2 - 1. The bus is placed in Neutral and air brakes applied, that's the only "Park" mode for the bus that I know if.

The air tanks are empty, would that cause an issue, cause the red (P) light to come on? and would that restrict the bus from turning over?