Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-12-2019, 09:43 AM   #41
Bus Crazy
 
TheHubbardBus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: SW USA
Posts: 2,064
Year: 2003
Coachwork: IC / Amtran
Chassis: CE300
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMORGANSKOOL View Post
My dad got very limited life out of lead acid deep cycle batteries in Hawaii on his solar setup. Like 1 year of cycling daily. You should do a load test with a monitor and your 3000w inverter and see how long it runs. Once those batteries die look into LiFePo4 or Agm batteries. I bet your three batteries can run all your lights and electronics ok for 12 hours.
An AGM battery is lead acid, and any AGM battery suitable for solar use would be, by definition, deep cycle. What do you mean by the distinction you've drawn between whatever your father had and the AGMs you believe to be a step up?

I also don't understand how you can presume to predict how long marc's batteries can run his loads when as far as I can see he's never posted in any detail what his loads are, how many amps each draws, how long he's planning to run each load, or what loads will be operated concurrently.

Finally, if you happened to be correct in your prediction, would you consider 12 hours to be a good thing, or a bad thing? It sounds like you're suggesting that's acceptable performance, but I don't want to make assumptions. Are you saying 12 hours to 50% DoD, 12 hours until inverter shuts down from under-voltage, or something else?

__________________
Go away. 'Baitin.

Our Build: Mr. Beefy
TheHubbardBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2019, 12:44 PM   #42
Bus Nut
 
CMORGANSKOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelpiha Pennsylvania
Posts: 397
Year: 2007
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: FE Bus
Engine: DT-466 7.6L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 77
I’m just guessing he uses some low voltage lights and some small electronics like a phone and laptop. Maybe a small refrigerator.
3 marine deep cycle which is what I think those are that he has use those problematic lead blocks which are great for short bursts but oxidize rapidly when cycling regularly. Those batteries are rated in the 80-100ah range. So I’m assuming 240ah 50% useable 10-15 amp load. That should run this load ok. I think based off my experience every skoolie has similar power consumption unless you’re running induction cook tops, large refrigerator, electric water heater etc. My experience with Mark on this forum has been nothing but respectful and informative.
CMORGANSKOOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2019, 03:52 PM   #43
Bus Crazy
 
TheHubbardBus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: SW USA
Posts: 2,064
Year: 2003
Coachwork: IC / Amtran
Chassis: CE300
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 23
Understood. Thanks for the clarification.

Yeah, if he's pulling a 10A average load, and the sun's always shining, he should be able to get by. 15A might fly, but he'd then be exceeding the C/20 rate at which his AH rating was based. Personally, I wouldn't want to run down my bank to 50% on a daily basis. That's a huge hit on battery life compared to a more conservative limit ( ~300% difference in cycle life between 30% & 50% DoD with at least one brand of AGMs). Plus, one rainy day, and he's back to the generator. I'd personally want a lot more storage than that for your assumed load.

Still, one of the biggest problems remains. The 3000W inverter. Just looking at the specs for one (others are worse), the no-load draw is 2.5A. That's 25% of your assumed 10A load just to heat the air. And as said before, if he ever used that 3000W (the continuous rating - not the 6000W peak), he'd likely roach the bank in short order, as that's over C/1 discharge (3000 / 12 = 250A).

I can't agree with the assumption everyone's wants & needs are the same, or anywhere close to it. And to underscore that point: Are you aware he's asking about power consumption specs for his mini-split in another thread in this sub-forum at this very moment? The respondents are citing numbers anywhere from 50-100+ amps, not counting startup. I don't think he'll be very happy if he tries to do what he'd like to do on a 240AH-advertised bank being pulled @ > C/4.
__________________
Go away. 'Baitin.

Our Build: Mr. Beefy
TheHubbardBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2019, 03:57 PM   #44
Bus Geek
 
o1marc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
How often does the system produce more power than it's using, so the batteries don't deplete at all during use? Is it conceivable you could use a low amp charger and charge the batteries off the batteries?
o1marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2019, 04:08 PM   #45
Bus Nut
 
CMORGANSKOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelpiha Pennsylvania
Posts: 397
Year: 2007
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: FE Bus
Engine: DT-466 7.6L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
How often does the system produce more power than it's using, so the batteries don't deplete at all during use? Is it conceivable you could use a low amp charger and charge the batteries off the batteries?
Your panels charge the batteries or a generator connected to a charger.

At 1000 watts in good sun you should be producing more power than you can store in those batteries. The batteries are the weak link as is the giant inverter. My 2000/4000 draws 1.5 amps at idle. My 600/1000 draws 0. Of you get a hall sensor you can measure all these loads easily. DC Ammeter, DROK Digital DC Multimeter 0-90V 100A Voltmeter Ammeter 12v 24v 30v 48v 60v 80v Voltage Volt Current Amp Power Watt Capacity Time Meter Battery Tester Monitor with LCD Screen Hall Sensor https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MZIAJI0..._npDuDbC0RZZBK

I have one attached to each inverter. And a relay that shuts off the inverter of or triggers a fault. I also ordered a temperature relay to shut off the charge controller to my lithium bank if it gets below safe operating temp.
Electronic Thermostat Controller, DROK Digital Temperature Control Board DC 6-30V -50 to +110 Degree Celsius High Accuracy LCD Digital Micro Temp Control Switch Module with Waterproof Sensor Probe https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GQPT9VG..._7qDuDbMGZZHV7
And a battery cut off that’s relay activated.
12V Car Auto Vehicle MotorBoat Battery Electromagnetic Disconnect Switch, DC 12V Electromechanical Solenoid Power Switch + One Button Dash Control Master Kill System Turn on/off No Open The Front Hood https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GMPPYYI..._wrDuDb6F5MWW8

Your panels can charge around 1000ah battery bank in a day. Your goal now should be building a giant battery bank to store everything you produce.

These are the cheapest LiFePo4 cell I’ve found. 4 in series is a 12 battery.
About $450 for 100ah storage.
3.2V100AH RUIXU LiFePO4 Single Cell Battery With Plastic Case,Build Your Own Battery Bank In Different Voltage for RV, Solar, Marine, and Off-Grid Applications https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P5ZND8S..._XuDuDbGVS889S
CMORGANSKOOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2019, 04:34 PM   #46
Bus Crazy
 
TheHubbardBus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: SW USA
Posts: 2,064
Year: 2003
Coachwork: IC / Amtran
Chassis: CE300
Engine: International T444e
Rated Cap: 23
This is ridiculous. He started out the thread not knowing the difference between serial & parallel and now you're trying to get him to build his own LFP bank out of individual cells.

Don't forget to tell him about the BMS. I'm sure you'll suggest he build his own as well

In the course of two posts, you've literally gone from saying 240AH of LA is fine (based on absolutely nothing, I might add) to suggesting he shoot for 1000AH of lithium. This thread is like schizophrenia, only without any good drugs.

I've got some 4/0 welding cable laying around here somewhere. Y'all want to parallel another 10 panels on your roof along with a couple more CCs I'll sell it to you cheap!

I'm out. When the fire starts, no-one can say I didn't try.
__________________
Go away. 'Baitin.

Our Build: Mr. Beefy
TheHubbardBus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2019, 05:42 PM   #47
Bus Nut
 
CMORGANSKOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelpiha Pennsylvania
Posts: 397
Year: 2007
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: FE Bus
Engine: DT-466 7.6L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 77
Bye.

Felicia.


3 marine deep cycles will get you by, but won't hold anywhere near what your panels will produce. I suggest you get a hall sensor and see what your loads really are and build a battery bank around that, and get away from the marine deep cycle into AGM which is affordable and better or lifepo4 which is expensive but lasts a long time. Build your own and learn as you go. I have faith.
CMORGANSKOOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2019, 06:56 AM   #48
Bus Crazy
 
somewhereinusa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Andrews,Indiana
Posts: 2,430
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: AARE
Engine: 3116 Cat 250hp
Rated Cap: Just the two of us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMORGANSKOOL View Post

I also ordered a temperature relay to shut off the charge controller to my lithium bank if it gets below safe operating temp.
Electronic Thermostat Controller, DROK Digital Temperature Control Board DC 6-30V -50 to +110 Degree Celsius High Accuracy LCD Digital Micro Temp Control Switch Module with Waterproof Sensor Probe https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GQPT9VG...<br /> <br />
What do you think of using two of these in parallel with a latching relay to insure safety. I hate to think of trusting my expensive batteries to a cheap Chinese unit.
somewhereinusa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2019, 08:01 AM   #49
Bus Nut
 
CMORGANSKOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelpiha Pennsylvania
Posts: 397
Year: 2007
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: FE Bus
Engine: DT-466 7.6L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhereinusa View Post
What do you think of using two of these in parallel with a latching relay to insure safety. I hate to think of trusting my expensive batteries to a cheap Chinese unit.
You can wire them in parallel. Drok makes good ones too. You could even use a regular old house thermostat and a relay. I'm also installing a battery heating pad with a thermostat. They're cheap and they make pads that stick right on the side of your batteries to warm them up to charging temp.
CMORGANSKOOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2019, 09:22 AM   #50
Bus Nut
 
CMORGANSKOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelpiha Pennsylvania
Posts: 397
Year: 2007
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: FE Bus
Engine: DT-466 7.6L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 77
Marc,
Check out this bad boy I just got!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

200 amp Relay triggered battery disconnect normally closed.

The battery monitor i linked in the thread has a relay triggered by faults that you program for over/under voltage, current, charge, wattage etc. This goes between the battery and the positive connection and in the event of a fault from the battery monitor disconnects the battery from the load. Super cheap and handy way to protect your battery bank
CMORGANSKOOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2019, 09:56 AM   #51
Bus Crazy
 
somewhereinusa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Andrews,Indiana
Posts: 2,430
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: AARE
Engine: 3116 Cat 250hp
Rated Cap: Just the two of us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMORGANSKOOL View Post
Marc,
Check out this bad boy I just got!
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

200 amp Relay triggered battery disconnect normally closed.

The battery monitor i linked in the thread has a relay triggered by faults that you program for over/under voltage, current, charge, wattage etc. This goes between the battery and the positive connection and in the event of a fault from the battery monitor disconnects the battery from the load. Super cheap and handy way to protect your battery bank
Am I missing something? It looks like it's normally open, rated amps is 100A with a max of 1000A. I've not seen one before that has a 900A difference between rated and max.

Here's one rated for 200/300A

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Continuous-...UAAOSwh9BaxsnH
somewhereinusa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2019, 11:14 AM   #52
Skoolie
 
nanoplane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kingston, WA
Posts: 111
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: MVP
Engine: 8.3L Cummins Turbo
So in my configuration, I have 20 100W panels is a series / parallel relationship driving two charge controllers (4 sets of 3 panels in parallel and 4 sets of 2 panels in parallel.. More complicated but is provides up to 37V driving the charge controllers and evenly divides the supply between them) This drives a parallel connected set of 4 AGM 200AH 12 V batteries .

Why I did it this way:

1. The parallel configurations limit the impact of shade on the output of the system.. basically if you connected all the panels in series, shade on one panel would reduce the total current to what that one shaded panel could produce. In my case, shade on one panel only impacts the output of the local "group"

2. Max current into each Solar Charge Controller (SCC) is < 30A. Charge Controller will change this into about 75A from each SCC into the 12V system for charging or running things. I probably could have gone with a single SCC, but I wanted the ability to support full parallel... Also, If I lose one SCC for some reason, I can re-route everything to a single SCC an not lose my power.

Basic schematic is below:



Note, each parallel sub-group is wired to the terminal strip where I can change things to a full parallel vs any series / parallel arrangement I want. The Schematic show the one I went for...

Drawing matches the roof configuration here:



Wiring and layout here:

__________________
--Marcel
Build Thread
nanoplane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2019, 11:44 AM   #53
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Picton,Ont, Can.
Posts: 1,956
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: GMC
Engine: Cat 3116
Rated Cap: 72
Outstanding creation you have made there nonoplane!


This is probably as good an example of how to do this solar harnessing on a bus or anywhere for domestic useage.


Beautiful design and layout .with at a glance understandability.


Terminations are pretty solid and thought put into cabling definitely is eye appealing. That system of yours adds value appreciably to your build, although that may not be a reason to be converting, Compared to other layouts I would not have the slightest doubt that you built for quality, safety, and ease of troubleshooting or configuration changes that will suit your needs well. To me, I could sleep well at night knowing the job as completed,
is as good as it gets!


My hat is off to you sir, very nicely done.


John
__________________
Question everything!
BlackJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2019, 12:21 PM   #54
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Western Oregon
Posts: 876
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Blue-Bird
Chassis: TC RE 3408
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12V Mechanical/Allison MT643
Rated Cap: Blue-Bird says 72 pass.
@nanoplane, very impressive, and thanks very much for sharing the pdf of your schematics, that makes it so much easier to understand.
gs1949 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2019, 12:41 PM   #55
Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Monrovia California
Posts: 151
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Engine: 3208 turbo Cat
Rated Cap: 78
This is a masterpiece, but now I have to figure out where to set up my master bedroom,

J
juliol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2019, 01:06 PM   #56
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Western Oregon
Posts: 876
Year: 1995
Coachwork: Blue-Bird
Chassis: TC RE 3408
Engine: 5.9 Cummins 12V Mechanical/Allison MT643
Rated Cap: Blue-Bird says 72 pass.
@juliol, I understand that dilemma perfectly, but I won't have so many panel's or batteries so it shouldn't be too hard to solve, I hope.
gs1949 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2019, 03:28 PM   #57
Bus Nut
 
CMORGANSKOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelpiha Pennsylvania
Posts: 397
Year: 2007
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: FE Bus
Engine: DT-466 7.6L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhereinusa View Post
Am I missing something? It looks like it's normally open, rated amps is 100A with a max of 1000A. I've not seen one before that has a 900A difference between rated and max.

Here's one rated for 200/300A

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Continuous-...UAAOSwh9BaxsnH

lol maybe i'm missing something. I thought it was normally open... that's what I searched for... regardless I have a dpdt 2no 2nc relay to go with it so whether it's no or nc I'm ok. Just wanted to post because these are a cheap alternative to something like a victron battery protect when you have the hall sensor I posted previously on the thread. This is rated for 200 amp continuous up to 1000 amp in short bursts. You definitely need something bigger if you have a bigger system. Mine will never crack 200.
CMORGANSKOOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2019, 05:21 PM   #58
Bus Geek
 
o1marc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMORGANSKOOL View Post
lol maybe i'm missing something. I thought it was normally open... that's what I searched for... regardless I have a dpdt 2no 2nc relay to go with it so whether it's no or nc I'm ok. Just wanted to post because these are a cheap alternative to something like a victron battery protect when you have the hall sensor I posted previously on the thread. This is rated for 200 amp continuous up to 1000 amp in short bursts. You definitely need something bigger if you have a bigger system. Mine will never crack 200.
Where do you get the 200a figure from, it's not in the listing anywhere?
o1marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2019, 07:38 PM   #59
Bus Nut
 
CMORGANSKOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelpiha Pennsylvania
Posts: 397
Year: 2007
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: FE Bus
Engine: DT-466 7.6L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
Where do you get the 200a figure from, it's not in the listing anywhere?
This is in the item description. "The instructional diagram is in item photos, please refer to it when installation. Installation need additional wires larger than 22AWG. Max Current: 1000A, Rated Current: 100A, Rated Voltage: DC 12V, Working Voltage: DC 5-15V, Lifetime of Use: 100,000 Times.

When I got the thing I was surprised. It looks the size of a quarter in the picture. It weighs about 7lbs and is about the size of two fists put together. It's freaking huge.
CMORGANSKOOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 04:10 PM   #60
Bus Geek
 
o1marc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus View Post

Keep the 6 panels and CC you've got. Don't plan on buying any more, at least not now. Run them 2x3 or 3x2. Replace the 3000W inverter w/ a quality inverter/charger with AC pass-through in the 1000-1500W range. Plan on powering only singular loads < 1000W off your bank. Any of the big stuff... large microwaves, hair dryers, space heaters, particle colliders... are run off shore or generator power only (transfer switch -> dedicated circuit(s)). With reasonable peak loads you've limited yourself to w/ the smaller inverter, you can probably get by with the 400AH bank (GC2s) discussed above, but if your budget/space/etc allow for it, shoot for 600-800, either using larger 6vs, or better yet, a single string of 2Vs.
So I would run the 3 lefts in series and the 3 rights in series and parallel the 2 runs, or vice versa?
o1marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.