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Old 12-30-2019, 09:55 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Solar planning

I am at the design stage of my build. I'm wanting to go all electric with solar, shore power and generator options . I was thinking fridge and freezer, water pump, instant water heater, max fan, no stovetop or oven just electric griddle, hot plate, toaster oven (propane grill outside) ... and a possible small washing machine. ... I dont want propane appliances and I'll probably run a lot of 110v outlets from inverter.

How am I to estimate solar panels needed and battery before I gather all of my gear? I'm trying to get a list going so I can slowly look for used items and store it all in my garage waiting for the right bus to buy. I already have a 400AH renogy battery but its the gel kind idk if that matters. If I need more battery I need to buy the same kind ? And if those arent good which kind to buy?

Thanks for reading, cheers!

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Old 12-30-2019, 10:11 PM   #2
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You'll be wanting a Kill-A-Watt to measure usage of every item you plan on running and how much you will use each item during the day to find out what your daily wattage usage is needed. You'll need to know start up usage as well as run time usage. This the fun part of designing a system.
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Old 12-30-2019, 11:49 PM   #3
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I see. .. so I suppose theres no good way to estimate beforehand ? Just an average amount of solar panels people use would be helpful
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Old 12-31-2019, 12:46 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark5 View Post
I see. .. so I suppose theres no good way to estimate beforehand ? Just an average amount of solar panels people use would be helpful
The average that I have observed runs between 300 watts and 2000 watts. It really depends on your loads and battery bank.

The best approach is to document all of your loads and create your energy budget. Then size your batteries to match your needs and finally size your panels to support your batteries.

I
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Old 12-31-2019, 08:19 AM   #5
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Sounds good thanks!
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Old 12-31-2019, 08:32 AM   #6
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Howdy Clark, I took the all electric approach with my coach. IMO, the stage that you are at is the most difficult due to all of the unknowns. Obviously, the draw of various appliances and the amount of time that they will be in use is difficult to estimate. Toss in solar panel efficiency (due to mounting/dirt), insolation at your current location, and inverter losses and the whole equation is messy. As an engineer - it nearly drove me insane and I had the advantage of having lived in a motorhome for a while.

IMO, about the best you can do is make some educated guesses. Observe your current style of living over a week or two and take some notes. How many minutes did you use the microwave, the cooktop, the oven, lights, television, etc... Hopefully that gives you some "in use" numbers to work with.

Next, the energy number published with appliances appears to be a useful number, IMO. Using only my refrigerator as an example, the documented number is fairly close.

After several years of use, I can say with confidence that my flat mounted solar panels produce about 80% of rated power during the summer months and slightly less than 60% during winter months (in the desert southwest). You will have to factor that in as well as where you plan to spend most of your time (insolation level).

Judging from the handful of PSW inverters that I've looked at, none are more than 90% efficient. So, assume a 10% conversion loss (at least). This is why many here wisely advise powering as many items as possible from DC (rather than suffer the big loss).

With a bunch of data in hand, you start putting an energy budget together. I did that here for my Dutch Star. I've done several for my coach but I've never published any of them as there are just so many variables.

If you goal is to run an solar as much as possible, I'd suggest putting as much solar on the roof as you can fit. It is very unlikely that it will be excessive. Yes, there are several rules of thumb and design criteria that are best practice. However; it is nearly impossible to achieve these with a bus/rv/motorhome.

IMO, lithium is easily the best technical decision for a battery bank. They are incredible and make everything else easier. However; the short-term cost is high. Long term?? More of my opinion, but I believe they are no more expensive than a FLA bank. However; that is debatable since there are so many factors at play. Some like to argue about it but it really isn't worth the time. Do your homework, establish your mission criteria, and do the math. That said, any of the common battery types will serve you well (at least in a 'typical' sized RV bank) if you care for it properly (more homework).
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Old 12-31-2019, 08:32 PM   #7
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I've been researching not only what to go with but the cost on both LI and AGM batteries. The biggest difference I see is weight factor. And good luck finding a Nissan leaf or other EV in a salvage yard before their power banks get snagged. The word is out that they're big money for resale. Hey has anyone used/ordered from Alibaba? If so, what is/was your experience with them?
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Old 12-31-2019, 10:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimburke77502 View Post
The biggest difference I see is weight factor.
No doubt that weight is significant. Having lived with them for nearly three years, it is my opinion that other benefits are more significant.

I can imagine that a good electronics DIY person can put together a good, high-energy bank from parts. However; I have a very hard time imagining that this is a good approach for most folks. Buy a good package with BMS included, take care of it, and it will serve you very well.

However; this would appear to be a tangent from the OP's question. My apologies Clark - didn't mean to send your thread spinning.
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Old 01-01-2020, 10:53 AM   #9
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No worries! Always something to learn

I have a renogy 200ah pure gel deep cycle. I know it's not lithium but I heard itll last longer than AGM. Do you agree?
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Old 01-01-2020, 11:08 AM   #10
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Afraid all my experience is with FLA and lithium so can't answer. If I did, I'd just be regurgitating what I've read online about gel/AGM.

No matter the chemistry type, they can all serve you well if you understand how to use them and properly care and feed them. The stories one reads about "my batteries only lasted x months" are often from folks that didn't do this.
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Old 01-01-2020, 11:27 AM   #11
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I was thinking... you may be asking a different question than I tried to answer.

You said you have one 200ah battery and also want an all electric setup. Details always matter, of course, and before you can know that one 200ah battery (with ~100Ah usable capacity) is sufficient, you must do the energy budget that we discussed above and decide on your "mission" for the system (e.g. 'I want to be able to run my system from battery power alone for three days'). Unless you have a VERY tiny/efficient setup, it is very unlikely that this is sufficient battery capacity.
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Old 01-01-2020, 11:58 AM   #12
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Oh no I am definitely buying more batteries for my set up but that's the one I had bought this year for a different project I ended up not finishing. Since I already own it I wanted to know if I should stick w the same kind. I dont think I can afford lithium but I do think the gel doesnt need distilled water or anything ? Idk I'm still at phase 1..much to learn.
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