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Old 01-06-2023, 10:24 PM   #1
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SP3T (On)-On-(On) switch

I want to replace a SPDT rocker switch in my Paneltronics DC circuit breaker panel with a SP3T Momentary On - On - Momentary On switch, i.e. the center position is the default, with the other two positions used only when needed. I've not found a suitable switch, but Mouser has a hack to convert a DPDT to what I want by connecting pins 3 and 5. Has anyone here done anything like this? I don't fully understand Mouser's hack!

Thanks, John

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Old 01-07-2023, 12:05 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceni John View Post
I want to replace a SPDT rocker switch in my Paneltronics DC circuit breaker panel with a SP3T Momentary On - On - Momentary On switch, i.e. the center position is the default, with the other two positions used only when needed. I've not found a suitable switch, but Mouser has a hack to convert a DPDT to what I want by connecting pins 3 and 5. Has anyone here done anything like this? I don't fully understand Mouser's hack!

Thanks, John
I think if I knew the application I might be able to help
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Old 01-07-2023, 01:20 AM   #3
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Interesting puzzle. Had to look it up.. good luck johan.
Note the word "misleading"

So yes if you want to feed three different lights of one common power source but not so if the contact groups have to insulated from each other like a 12 volt and 24 volt circuit.




“Altering State” Switch Function
Electromechanical
Switches
electromechanicalterminologydesign-tools-and-resourcesswitches

“Altering State” Switch Function
Electromechanical
Switches
electromechanical
terminology
design-tools-and-resources
switches
ck

Ryan_2724
DigiKey Employee

11
Jul '20
7211, 7213, & 7215 are the select few of base part numbers for the C&K 7000 series switches which are listed as SP3T (single pole/triple throw) on our website, but these are not “out of the box” SP3T, and will require a jumper wire to be configured as a SP3T switch.

This can be somewhat misleading as they function similar to a double pole/double throw switch but have a triple toggle-and the center toggle will have an altered circuit state as compared to an actual DP3T switch. Although these switches have two separate poles and 3 toggle (actuator) positions, since these contain an altered circuit for the middle position, these are not truly a DP3T, which would also have a minimum of 8 pins, not 6.

You will notice the jumber between pins 2 & 3, or 8 & 9 and 2 & 3 respectively below:
image
Wiring for 3-way switch document
https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%2...y_Switches.pdf 26
Keep in mind there is more switches in our system similar to the function of these. These “altering state” switches are somewhat rare but when found you will notice they can be either a single or double pole, but these will always start at a triple throw or higher (three throw, four throw) etc. It is best to check the datasheet before ordering, especially if the switch has 3 or more toggle positions.

Below are examples of these switches. You will notice asterisks by these base part numbers in the DP section of the datasheet. The center actuation position will contain the altered or goofy circuit position
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Old 01-07-2023, 08:58 AM   #4
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Hey John, you might find what you need at Automation Direct...one of my favorite vendors. When we were setting up our food business production and automation stuff, I was able to get everything we needed from them. They have switches that come in two parts...the front knob or button is separate from the switch parts, which stack on the back, so you can configure the number of poles and what they do. Here's a version that might work for you? If you scroll down, you'll find their spring return-to-center options. I hope one of these works for you!

https://cdn.automationdirect.com/sta...ntsill3pos.pdf

EDIT to add: Even the VFDs in my metal shop came from Automation Direct and their support has been fantastic. I wore out the control panel buttons on one and was impressed that I could get a replacement panel instead of buying an entire new drive.
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Old 01-07-2023, 11:42 AM   #5
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Hi John...again.

The switches I've used from Automation Direct were the pushbutton ones. But I just checked the return-to-center switches I linked to and they do indeed have the same stackable backs like the ones I used, so you should be able to configure it however you want. Here's what the parts look like.

Click image for larger version

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Old 01-07-2023, 01:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblack5 View Post
Interesting puzzle. Had to look it up.. good luck johan.
Note the word "misleading"

So yes if you want to feed three different lights of one common power source but not so if the contact groups have to insulated from each other like a 12 volt and 24 volt circuit.




“Altering State” Switch Function
Electromechanical
Switches
electromechanicalterminologydesign-tools-and-resourcesswitches

“Altering State” Switch Function
Electromechanical
Switches
electromechanical
terminology
design-tools-and-resources
switches
ck

Ryan_2724
DigiKey Employee

11
Jul '20
7211, 7213, & 7215 are the select few of base part numbers for the C&K 7000 series switches which are listed as SP3T (single pole/triple throw) on our website, but these are not “out of the box” SP3T, and will require a jumper wire to be configured as a SP3T switch.

This can be somewhat misleading as they function similar to a double pole/double throw switch but have a triple toggle-and the center toggle will have an altered circuit state as compared to an actual DP3T switch. Although these switches have two separate poles and 3 toggle (actuator) positions, since these contain an altered circuit for the middle position, these are not truly a DP3T, which would also have a minimum of 8 pins, not 6.

You will notice the jumber between pins 2 & 3, or 8 & 9 and 2 & 3 respectively below:
image
Wiring for 3-way switch document
https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%2...y_Switches.pdf 26
Keep in mind there is more switches in our system similar to the function of these. These “altering state” switches are somewhat rare but when found you will notice they can be either a single or double pole, but these will always start at a triple throw or higher (three throw, four throw) etc. It is best to check the datasheet before ordering, especially if the switch has 3 or more toggle positions.

Below are examples of these switches. You will notice asterisks by these base part numbers in the DP section of the datasheet. The center actuation position will contain the altered or goofy circuit position
This is the same explanation as on Mouser's website. I think I now understand it! Ordinary DPDT switches cannot be altered this way, which is what originally confused me when I looked at the diagrams; only DPDT On-On-On switches can be altered to make a SP3T switch. I think I now need to find the correct type of DPDT rocker switch, but even that will be difficult because the normal Carling / Cole-Hersee rockers are much too big for the space on the panel. Nothing's easy!

John
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Old 01-07-2023, 01:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossvtaylor View Post
Hi John...again.

The switches I've used from Automation Direct were the pushbutton ones. But I just checked the return-to-center switches I linked to and they do indeed have the same stackable backs like the ones I used, so you should be able to configure it however you want. Here's what the parts look like.

Attachment 69988
Hi Ross,
This range of switches looks interesting, and I've bookmarked it for future reference. However, I need a rocker switch, and what's more one that's much smaller than the usual Carling / Cole-Hersee 1.58" x 0.8" rockers that are in the bus now. There's no space in my Paneltronics panel for a rotary switch like the ones described, plus there's already a rectangular cutout for the miniature rocker that's there now. However, your suggestion may well be what I need for another project I'll be attempting after I get my engine rebuilt. Thanks!

John
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Old 01-08-2023, 02:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossvtaylor View Post
Hi John...again.

The switches I've used from Automation Direct were the pushbutton ones. But I just checked the return-to-center switches I linked to and they do indeed have the same stackable backs like the ones I used, so you should be able to configure it however you want. Here's what the parts look like.

Attachment 69988
What you're showing are operators and contact blocks. You can stack quite a few together, and there are a wide range of different operators.
What's confusing me is the second "on".
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Old 01-08-2023, 04:07 AM   #9
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I am also confused by the description you gave fro the switch. I recently purchased a 2P3T switch at NAPA auto parts to replace the failed one in my Onan 6.5 DKD generator. It only needed a 1P3T switch but the extra pole doesn't get used. This switch is momentary both directions and stays in the middle position unless one side or the other is pressed.
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