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Old 03-27-2021, 10:51 AM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Trouble getting bus to start, ignition interlock

Hello everyone! I was wondering if someone could give me some advice in tacking a problem I'm having with the ignition lock on my Corbeil Bus 1999 E350.

The bus started fine just last week but after letting it sit for a few days, it would not turn over. No cranking. At first I thought it was a mechanical issue, but after replacing the starter, starter relay and batteries I believe I've narrowed the issue down to a ignition lock resting above the drivers side cab. I found this strange has there are no alarms going off as I start the bus.

The solenoid (I think?) pictured below makes a loud single thunk noise whenever I try to turn the bus over. After reading more into this, I believe it to be an ignition lock.

The Washington DC school district did not take very good care of this bus. The wiring has all been pre-ripped out by the district and a lot of it appears patchy and makeshift. One of the red wires on the solenoid is hanging free and ends in a strange connector that I'm unfamiliar with. Could this free hanging wire be what is keeping the circuit open?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much
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Old 03-27-2021, 11:35 AM   #2
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that solenoid looks old and corroded.
have someone turn the key to start while you tap on it pretty good with a wrench or hammer a couple of times.
a member on here by the name of joe black has a corbeil and is pretty sharp.
he might be your best help.
sounds like a solenoid to me.
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Old 03-27-2021, 11:36 AM   #3
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a good bit of the wiring in the second pic appears to be for a Carrier air conditioning system. . the relays with the letter codes are for the A/C, as also likely is the black circuit breaker. . the solenoid you pictured looks like a body solenoid.. activated when the ignition is in ACC or ON.. handles things like inside lights, heaters, rear A/C, school lights..
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Old 03-27-2021, 12:17 PM   #4
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I'll be opening the panel above the step entrance today and see what is above there. Maybe I have the wrong solenoid picked out here? I've noticed that on several youtube videos their ignition lock doesn't have the two extra terminals that my pictured one has. Only one extra terminal.
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Old 03-27-2021, 12:20 PM   #5
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Love that Christopher identifies wires to the a/c unit based on wire numbers/letters.
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Old 03-27-2021, 12:23 PM   #6
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Along with a good 12v test light and a good multimeter, this tool is really great at tracing wires you can't visually follow.

https://www.amazon.com/Fluke-Network.../dp/B000FTADX0

Along the way of trouble shooting my no crank issue, and other things during the conversion, I've started tracking and labeling wires in the areas I'm working.

Then I'm documenting things like relays and such that are not identified clearly.

Hope this helps and you get your issue resolved.
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Old 03-27-2021, 01:11 PM   #7
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One of the biggest favors you can do yourself when cleaning up rats nests is to label the cables as you go through . The Rhino 5200 Lablemaker will print on 3 sizes of shrink and now that the aftermarket has caught up, the rolls are 5-6 bucks instead of 20 plus. They cost around $125 at Amazon, Staples.. You will thank yourself in the future Guaranteed. IMHO

Or, you can use a paper 1" x 3" self adhesive label, write on it in ink, fold it around the cable and put a "Buckle" of Scotch magic tape.
A mentor, 40 years ago taught me that. I was still thanking him 30 years later working behind him.
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Old 03-27-2021, 01:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
Love that Christopher identifies wires to the a/c unit based on wire numbers/letters.

LOL I have seen so many of them.. ive been in volved in a lot of A/C removel / repurpose projects for busses.. as many people seem to want to remove their A/C, there are just as many who want to have it..



somehow the people who want A/C end up with busses that dont have it.. and those who think its ugly or live in the cold north end up with A/C'd busses..





another thought with the Original Post. . is there perhaps a Vandal lock? ie a rear door lock on the bus? many states require that a bus wit ha rear door lock have the engine not start unless the door is Unlocked
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Old 03-27-2021, 01:20 PM   #9
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Thanks for the tips, Simplicity. I appreciate the help
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Old 03-27-2021, 01:29 PM   #10
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Thats a good idea, I think i'll be doing that labelling
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Old 03-27-2021, 01:36 PM   #11
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In response to asking if there is a rear lock, I have no idea. I posted a picture and from what research I've done, usually there is two boxes. Not just one like I have on my rear door.
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Old 03-27-2021, 02:54 PM   #12
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Halt,

On the emergency exit doors there can be two sets of locks.

1) Door handle. This secures the door and will set off a buzzer. Mostly this is in case a kid opens the door to alert the driver.

2) Slide latch. At the bottom of the door is a slide latch like you'll see on a gate. I believe it's part of the vandalock system, as if it's locked, there will be a buzzer and the bus won't crank. To crank the engine, it must be fully unlocked, meaning slid all the way back and flipped down into place.

In all the school buses I've driven, the rear windows don't have the slide latch, just a buzzer.

The only one that causes a no crank situation is #2 (at least in relation to emergency exits).

I'll take a couple of pictures and post them if my description is not clear.

Let me know.
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Old 03-27-2021, 03:12 PM   #13
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Thanks Simplicity, I tried looking for the slide latch you described on the rear of the bus. I couldn't find anything that resembled what you described, only what is pictured. Really strange. I don't get an alarm that buzzes anymore either.
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Old 03-27-2021, 03:47 PM   #14
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I'd like to back up a bit.

What engine is in the bus?
What transmission is in the bus?

Does it have a wheelchair lift as part of the bus?

You said the bus started fine a week ago.
When it started, did it lug at all or crank strong?

Did you just start it and let it idle, drive it, if so for how long?

What have you done to the bus between when it last started and when you went to start it and it didn't start?

Do you have a 12v test light and a multi-meter? Do you know how to use them?

Just so you know, I've had two times that my bus would not crank.

One, I had left the rear window buzzer detached, which caused an open in the circuit and the bus would not crank. I attached the buzzer and vrrroooom.

The second one is well documented on a thread, including a second thread with the summary and solution. Bottom line, I had taken the bus for a drive, all was great. Later that afternoon I went to start it and no crank.

After all the normal trouble shooting (kind of like we're doing here), a lot of testing and such, we finally found a needle in the haystack. Actually, it was one of the leads from a diode the size of a cooked grain of rice, covered by a yellowed plastic tube and shoved in with a rats nest of wires in my back panel.

$13 diode and the bus cranked right up.
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Old 03-27-2021, 04:14 PM   #15
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It's a 7.3 L powerstroke with a I believe E40D transmission.
No wheel chair lift.
When I started it last it was really cold out, so it really had a lot of trouble turning over. But ran fan after ward, smoked a lot.

I'm going to go pick up a multimeter today as well as a test light and one of those sound wire tracers.
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Old 03-27-2021, 04:18 PM   #16
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I also forgot to mention that I left the entrance door open for a long period of time since the last time I cranked it. I've heard a few buses can have the vandalock on those doors as well. I haven't got a chance to open up the panel above the door yet. But I'll let you know whats up there.
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Old 03-27-2021, 07:36 PM   #17
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Did you just start it and let it idle, drive it, if so for how long?

What have you done to the bus between when it last started and when you went to start it and it didn't start?
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Old 03-28-2021, 12:06 PM   #18
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I got back out to the bus this morning and took out the panel above the door way. There wasn't anything electrical above there as to note.

I let it idle for about thirty minutes last time I got it running before shutting it off with the drivers side and passenger step way open. I've replaced the starter and starter relay on the truck. I have new battery cables I'm going to be putting in place as well today.

I don't know if anyone has anything similar on their bus, but my step entrance handle has these two plungers on the side that seem like they would be used to determine whether the door was open or closed. Does anyone know what these are for?
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Old 03-28-2021, 12:27 PM   #19
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The school lights used those plungers as well as the stepwell light usually
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Old 03-28-2021, 12:56 PM   #20
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your starter solenoid is on the starter. i have seen bad ones on reman starters but get down there with a test light chock the wheels and have someone try to start it and see if you have power on the ignition wire.
check all wiring connections for cleanliness including motor to body ground strap.
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