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Old 04-20-2021, 09:37 AM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 16
Year: 1990
Coachwork: Crown Coach
Engine: DD6V92T
Rated Cap: 88
What is this thing?!

Hey everyone. I'm replacing some wiring, relays, and solenoids in my 1990 Crown Supercoach II. Specifically replacing everything in my service start panel at the rear of the bus. I am going crazy over here trying to identify this part. It was definitely not installed by the manufacturer. If anyone has any ideas please let me know! Thanks!



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Old 04-20-2021, 10:20 AM   #2
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Location: Windham NH
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Year: 1999
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If you intended to post a picture (seems like it), you didn't.


If you didn't intent to post a picture, pictures help. =)
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Old 04-20-2021, 12:10 PM   #3
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 16
Year: 1990
Coachwork: Crown Coach
Engine: DD6V92T
Rated Cap: 88
Can't seem to figure out the images in posts yet. Back to the FAQ's! lol
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Old 04-20-2021, 12:20 PM   #4
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 16
Year: 1990
Coachwork: Crown Coach
Engine: DD6V92T
Rated Cap: 88
Here's the unknown part.... part 2

Attached! I think.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Unknownrelayresize.jpg (1.13 MB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg Unknownpart2resize.jpg (1.11 MB, 13 views)
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Old 04-20-2021, 12:39 PM   #5
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Do any of those ends articulate (move)?


THESE ARE GUESSES!

My first guess was a solenoid, my second guess is a switch. Switch if the ends articulate. If its a solenoid, its possible its a 6V solenoid, so I wouldn't go applying 12V to it testing, I'd try 6V first (it does say "6V" on it, after all).


If you have a multimeter you can test to see what it is. Also, having a bench power supply where you can control voltage/amperage helps.
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Old 04-20-2021, 03:41 PM   #6
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Year: 1989
Coachwork: Crown Coach
Chassis: 40ft 3-axle 10spd O/D, Factory A/C
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Rated Cap: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperII View Post
Hey everyone. I'm replacing some wiring, relays, and solenoids in my 1990 Crown Supercoach II. Specifically replacing everything in my service start panel at the rear of the bus. I am going crazy over here trying to identify this part. It was definitely not installed by the manufacturer. If anyone has any ideas please let me know! Thanks!




What makes you think Crown didn't build it in? I do question the apparent 6V stamped on it and that would make it suspect of an aftermarket add-on. It has the look of all the standard housings used in the automotive truck/bus world, where the individual function and terminals are quite specific to it's designed function. Delco-Remy was the maker of these since forever and if any of the identifying numbers are valid part numbers you should still be able to find out what the thing is built to do. Crown uses them as well and they are shown on the wiring diagrams and what their functions are. From simple switches/relays to buzzers to complex pre-computer and even pre-solid state transistor technology operations have been incorporated inside those plain metal enclosures. The part numbers are critical and usually the only way to know for sure what species of animal you're dealing with. Maybe you can trace the wires to it and deduce what it's operation was designed to control, where and what does it connect to?

Take it easy and suppress your temptation to rip everything out to find the problems. Slow and methodical is safest, and wait for some more informed help. Iceni_John has original wiring diagrams for the Crown II and is in a much better position to help you figure this all out. You might even send him a PM to get his attention.

If you wait around and keep checking this thread I'm very sure Iceni_John will appear, as if my Magic. For him all that's required is to say three times "Crown II, Crown II, Crown II".
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Old 04-20-2021, 09:14 PM   #7
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Location: Auburn, WA
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Year: 2000
Coachwork: IC / Amtran
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Rated Cap: 72 Kids / 48 Adults
What are the measurements?

Where were wires connected?

It appears there is a mounting plate with two holes, the leg with two rivets has a threaded hole, the opposite leg I can't tell if there are threads or not, and then the two other legs "might" articulate??

Have you tested it with a mult-meter? If so, what legs do what?
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Old 05-06-2021, 08:16 PM   #8
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Its a 6V relay.....old one.
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Old 05-07-2021, 01:03 AM   #9
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Year: 1998
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Pop the cover off and look, jeez
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Old 05-07-2021, 02:14 PM   #10
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Posts: 276
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Crown Coach
Chassis: 40ft 3-axle 10spd O/D, Factory A/C
Engine: 300hp Cummins 855
Rated Cap: 91
Absolutely. They are made to be maintained. Open it and see what's what. Cleaning relay contact points and even adjustments for whatever they were designed to do were built in to these units. Very cool and low tech, but boy did they last and last and last, like that Energizer Rabbit. Field expedient repairs and not just simply throw it away and get another one. Try it out you'll be surprised.
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Old 05-07-2021, 06:57 PM   #11
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Location: Auburn, WA
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Chassis: 3000 / 33' Flat Nose
Engine: IC T444E / Allison MT643
Rated Cap: 72 Kids / 48 Adults
Trivia Fact: Energizer Bunny runs on old 6v relays.
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Old 05-07-2021, 06:59 PM   #12
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Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 526
Year: 2000
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Chassis: 3000 / 33' Flat Nose
Engine: IC T444E / Allison MT643
Rated Cap: 72 Kids / 48 Adults
Does it surprise anyone that the OP hasn't been back in like 17 days, and he originally posted on 4/20?

Maybe he's been smoking something?

Hey, I learned something....so thanks for all your replys!
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Old 05-08-2021, 03:32 AM   #13
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,005
Year: 1990
Coachwork: integral
Chassis: Crown Supercoach II (rear engine)
Engine: Detroit 6V92TAC, DDEC 2, Jake brake, Allison HT740
Rated Cap: 37,400 lbs GVWR
Whatever it is (and the 6V inscription is puzzling), I haven't got one like that anywhere on my Super II! Inside the rear start panel there are two Cole-Hersee continuous-duty solenoids for engine start and engine run, three self-resetting circuit breakers for the hydraulic radiator fan and two other things (can't remember what right now!), a shunt for the Stewart Warner 150A ammeter, the 100A Class H renewable fuse that feeds the front junction box, and probably some more things I can't remember. I'll look at my schematic tomorrow and see what I've forgotten. I've been inside the damn rear start panel so many times now that I've made a quick-disconnect mount to make it easier for me to access its gizzards, and I completely rebuilt all its engine start and stop circuit because the school district had eviscerated it (why?!): when I rebuilt it according to the generic schematic I could start the engine but not stop it, so I made a stop function using 50' of 10-ga wire from the front JB's solenoid that grounds at the rear panel's "Ignition" push-pull switch. Very cool!

John
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Old 05-08-2021, 05:19 PM   #14
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,005
Year: 1990
Coachwork: integral
Chassis: Crown Supercoach II (rear engine)
Engine: Detroit 6V92TAC, DDEC 2, Jake brake, Allison HT740
Rated Cap: 37,400 lbs GVWR
One more whatsit I forgot to mention that lives inside the rear start panel is of course the starter interlock relay. Its terminal 1 is connected by orange wire 28 to the neutral safety switch on the side of the transmission, and its term.2 connects to the engine start solenoid (no.1 solenoid) that powers the starter motor's solenoid (and is also connected to the run solenoid no.2 and to the shunt and 100A fuse). Remember that the neutral safety switch on the transmission will ground when in neutral, but if the Morse cable from the Felsted T-handle shifter to the transmission isn't correctly adjusted then the neutral safety switch won't always work right, and if that happens you won't be able to start the engine. Have you tried jiggling the shifter to see if anything changes? The engine's Fast Idle is also connected to the neutral safety switch, so if your Fast Idle doesn't work it may be because of that switch and/or shifter cable.

Let me know what happens!
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Old 05-10-2021, 01:42 PM   #15
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 16
Year: 1990
Coachwork: Crown Coach
Engine: DD6V92T
Rated Cap: 88
Nope.. just trying to navigate the forum(noob) and my hands are covered in grease. Thanks for the patience!!!
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Old 05-10-2021, 01:46 PM   #16
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 16
Year: 1990
Coachwork: Crown Coach
Engine: DD6V92T
Rated Cap: 88
I've got the relay back where it belongs for now. I just replaced the solenoids in the rear start box and the 100a fuse too. I am resisting the temptation to rip and tear! I appreciate all the help and will keep you posted on the issues.
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