Where do I even start?

[dzl_]

Originally Posted by Joe45

Thanks. I realized I know two electricians and they're willing to help, so it shouldn't be too bad.

Perfect, just make sure you or they are aware of some of the differences between residential and mobile electrical (using stranded copper wire for instance)

[Ronnie]

Yes stranded wire. Also 110 volt a/c normally has black as the hot lead and white as nuetral, bare being ground. 12 volt dc is normally the reverse, white is positive, and black is ground, and is only two wires.

[dzl_]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Yes stranded wire. Also 110 volt a/c normally has black as the hot lead and white as nuetral, bare being ground. 12 volt dc is normally the reverse, white is positive, and black is ground, and is only two wires.

Yes, definitely want to be aware of the different wire color conventions. A couple clarifications:

AC 120V
Black = Hot
White = Neutral
Green or Bare = Ground






DC Low Voltage
Red = Positive
Black = Negative (in marine applications negative is sometimes yellow)






In cases where there is an actual ground wire with DC I'm used to seeing green or green/yellow, but I'm not sure how universal this is.

[Joe45]

Thank you for those clarifications! Probably saved me an unpleasant surprise!

[BlackJohn]

AC 120V

White = Hot

Black = Neutral

Green or Bare = Ground




Where does this come from? Never happened in my world ever.
White is neutral
Black is hot


I'm ready to give up on info re electrical on this site.



John

[Native]

You are correct, John. Perhaps _DZL mistyped.

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by BlackJohn

AC 120V

White = Hot

Black = Neutral

Green or Bare = Ground




Where does this come from? Never happened in my world ever.
White is neutral
Black is hot


I'm ready to give up on info re electrical on this site.



John

I was thinking the same thing, keep my mouth shut.

The white wire goes to the silver screw and the black goes to the "gold" screw, and the bare or green goes to the green screw.

[dzl_]

Jesus, I corrected misinformation with more misinformation, that is bad, I apologize. BlackJohn is 1,000,000% right, I was doing too much at once and misstyped, unfortunately the edit time limit expired. I'm asking admins to edit or delete the post for me. This is a potentially quite dangerous typo, thank you for catching it, apologies for adding to the confusion.

DC is less standardized but (in the US) Red = Positive, Black = Negative is the de facto standard as far as I am aware (though the marine industry also allows yellow for DC negative to prevent confusing AC hot with DC negative).

[dzl_]

Ronnie what standards body or what situations have you seen white recommended for DC positive?


ABYC (marine) standards for DC:



Can't find any NEC (US electrical code) or SAE (automotive standards body) guidelines for DC color coding, but my experience has been that the Red positive, Black negative is the standard for DC wiring. But if this is less universal than I think, I'd like to know.

[Mr. Goodkat]

Originally Posted by dzl_

Perfect, just make sure you or they are aware of some of the differences between residential and mobile electrical (using stranded copper wire for instance)

I'm used to wiring car stereos from when I was back in high school but I did gut and rewire our attached garage to make it my shop and it turned out great.

So I imagine I could go buy 100ft spools of red, black, green, and white 12 gauge stranded wire from my Menards and I should be good to go? 10 gauge for anything above 20 amps but up to 30 amps?

Originally Posted by Joe45

I will likely take you up on that.

I just ordered the above book and in the meantime will be running the plumbing etc.
My electric wires will be run in exposed conduit since I want that retro-fitted steampunk/Victorian look. So once I get there, hopefully soon, I will likely take you up on the offer.


Thank you!

I was thinking about doing the same. I like the look but I'm also trying to plan my wiring and plumbing so things can easily be changed or tended to with as much ease as possible. I think it's kind of an steampunk or even industrial look as you said. It would probably look good with the a farmhouse design as well.

[BlackJohn]

dzl. sorry I had to point it out as you have made many remarkable in depth posts thus far in many threads.


I do admire how much knowledge you have and how you share it with others. You have put in a great deal of effort in learning this subject matter, kudos for that kind sir!



Thought it may have been a typo or not proof-read before posting.



For folks who don't know the basics, this is the most basic info you should understand.


As far as DC goes, red +ve and black -ve is most common but there are other variations of color schemes used mostly dependent on mfg specs.


Thanks for the correction as this could cause someone to be badly hurt or killed.


John

[dzl_]

Originally Posted by Mr. Goodkat

So I imagine I could go buy 100ft spools of red, black, green, and white 12 gauge stranded wire from my Menards and I should be good to go? 10 gauge for anything above 20 amps but up to 30 amps?

If its stranded and copper, sounds like you are on the right track. I won't comment on the specific current ratings of the wire, this is something you should check and double check yourself based on the specific wire you select (the same gauge wire can have different current ratings based on insulation/temperature rating).



A couple general thoughts:


- If you use a wire size calculator or chart, know what type of wire they use, if you use a marine wire size calculator which assumes 105*C wire, but buy 60*C residential wire, it could be dangerous.

- Think about safety margins, and know what safety margins are recommended (for instance I believe the NEC requires derating wire in ambient temps above 85F/30C, and (I think) further derating it if it will be in conduit too. The ABYC (marine standard) has similar requirements.

- Size your fuses to blow before your wire is at risk and place them as close to the start of the circuit or the wire they will protect as possible.

- Pay attention to voltage drop, especially with low voltage DC, its not a safety issue but it can cause sensitive electronics to act screwy, and is a source of inefficiency / power loss.

[dzl_]

Originally Posted by BlackJohn

dzl. sorry I had to point it out as you have made many remarkable in depth posts thus far in many threads.

No, I'm quite grateful you pointed it out, it was a huge oversight and needed to be corrected.

And I completely agree with you that the basics, especially where safety is concerned should be crystal clear, and I feel bad for accidentally muddying those waters.

I would hope you or anyone else would always correct me where you think I'm wrong or misunderstanding things. I'm still learning, and have pretty limited knowledge in some areas, and sometimes the more I learn the less I feel like I actually know, and then there are just plain dumb mistakes like this.

I do admire how much knowledge you have and how you share it with others. You have put in a great deal of effort in learning this subject matter, kudos for that kind sir!

I appreciate that! I share what I can, try to pass on and pay forward things I've learned from others. But I'm just learning as I go too, and trying to soak up as much knowledge as I can. I think it would be accurate to say I'm a fairly knowledgeable beginner, but definitely still a beginner. Best I can do is pass along my understanding, and hopefully provide some useful sources/answers, but my opinion on its own shouldn't count for much. On an electrical forum I belong to I literally have an on-going thread dedicated to my 'dumb questions' for all the basic questions and dumb **** that pops into my head ...

Electrical is a damn detail oriented and not especially intuitive subject! I've learned a lot from others so I try to offer back what I can.

[john61ct]

Which color code scheme you follow is not so critical.

As long as you pick one standard, **you** know what's what, and follow it consistently throughout.

I use yellow for DC negative return,

save black for AC live phase leg, do **not** want those confused ever.

[jmiraglia]

I've found Will Prowse's book to be a very helpful primer on RV electrical systems: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/15...894cc6e28c1fb9

[dzl_]

Originally Posted by jmiraglia

I've found Will Prowse's book to be a very helpful primer on RV electrical systems

As an entry level, clearly written but somewhat basic introduction, I totally agree! It gives you most of the basic info you need in one place, in a simple easy to read format and doesn't get bogged down in the details/minutia.

Potential purchasers should be aware though, it is intended for beginners, and its focus is solar power (other power sources are covered in 1.5 pages) and won't answer all your questions about RV/mobile electrical.

Still a good book, solid easy to read entry level book for beginners, just know what you are getting.

It pairs nicely with Victron's Wiring Unlimitied which is much more in depth and detail oriented (and free), but more of an intermediate level book. It makes a better reference book, not something you would read cover to cover like you can with Will's book.

The DIY Marine folks treat Nigel Calder's books as the Bible of DIY marine electrical. There is a lot of crossover between our use-case and theirs, and the marine world has a very mature DIY community, so that might also be something worth looking into.

[Joe45]

[TheArgobus]

Just to pile on--I purchased 12V LED marker lights for the bus, which have two wires: a white and a black. Well, turns out BLACK is positive and WHITE is negative! So if you get an LED that doesn't seem to work--make sure you've got the right polarization going on.

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by TheArgobus

Just to pile on--I purchased 12V LED marker lights for the bus, which have two wires: a white and a black. Well, turns out BLACK is positive and WHITE is negative! So if you get an LED that doesn't seem to work--make sure you've got the right polarization going on.

My marker lights are white and black as well with black positive.

[dzl_]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

My marker lights are white and black as well with black positive.

Chinese electrical parts manufacturers figure things aren't confusing enough for us DIY'ers as it is, and just choose wire color at random . I suppose its halfway justifiable since there seem to be many different color coding conventions (US, IEC, etc) and I have no idea what standard China uses, or if they even have one.