Wire Size?

[o1marc]

What size wire should I run for 110v lights and fridge, TV.? Does my wire gauge change due to length of run on my DC runs? What size wire for LED lighting?

[PNW_Steve]

For 120v runs I would stick with 12 gauge. This stuff is the bomb: https://www.amazon.com/Common-Sense-.../dp/B07323J6VR

for DC I would use a wire size calculator: https://www.wirebarn.com/Wire-Calculator-_ep_41.html

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by PNW_Steve

For 120v runs I would stick with 12 gauge. This stuff is the bomb: https://www.amazon.com/Common-Sense-.../dp/B07323J6VR

for DC I would use a wire size calculator: https://www.wirebarn.com/Wire-Calculator-_ep_41.html

Would I need a 12/3 or would a 12/2 work?

[PNW_Steve]

12/2 has two conductors. Hot and Neutral.

12/3 has three conductors. Hot, Neutral and Ground.

In our application, allways 12/3.

[o1marc]

FML. I hate our local Home Depot, the last few years everything has gone downhill there, never enough floor help and the selection gets slimmer every week. I seldom leave the place with everything if not anything I went there for. We need the competition of a Lowes here. So this time I go to get 1/2" ball valves with a red handle, used them all time when I was in construction, blue handle for cold, red handle for hot. HD only carries the 1/2" in blue. Okay, not surprising they don't have what I need. I head to the electrical dept. to find a 100' roll of 12/3. I can't find it, grab the floor guy who says I know we have it, I just pulled one earlier for a customer. Go to the shelf, nothing. Go to an end cap and find all lengths except 100'. He says we have 250' rolls. I say way more than I need at that price. So I look back at the shelf where the 100'ers should be and notice it is $107($1.07/lf). I go back and check the 250' roll and it's $136, WTF. $107 for 100' and then $29 for another 150'($.19/lf . Well that was a no brainer at that point to get the big roll. Ran into the same thing at the grocery store yesterday.
Needed chicken wings. I see a 5lb bag of legs, regularly priced at $4.99, 5lb bag of thighs, regularly priced at $4.99. Then there were the 5lb bags of wings for $15.99 on sale for $13.99, WTF. I went home with legs.

[Willie_McCoy]

Originally Posted by PNW_Steve

12/2 has two conductors. Hot and Neutral.

12/3 has three conductors. Hot, Neutral and Ground.

In our application, allways 12/3.

12/2 has 2 insulated conductors, Hot and Neutral, plus a bare ground.

12/3 has 3 insulated conductors, plus a bare ground. One conductor is black, one is white, one is red. and one is bare (no insulation). Except for a switch loop, the black and red are used for hot wires and the white is used for the neutral. The bare wire is always a ground

12/2 is what you need for most applications, other than switch loops.

[o1marc]

12/2 is what I thought I needed, I can get it for half the price of 12/3.

[david.dgeorge07]

Originally Posted by PNW_Steve

12/2 has two conductors. Hot and Neutral.

12/3 has three conductors. Hot, Neutral and Ground.

In our application, allways 12/3.

Depending on what wire type 12/2 can mean hot neutral ground. It does for romex. But for SOOW you need 12/3 to get the same thing.

[o1marc]

I can get heavy duty exterior 12/3 extension cord wire much cheaper than Romex. Which is better for this application?

[Phantom5824]

Hi o1marc, this is my first post. Master electrician for 22 years, 32 years experience.

Outdoor grade extension cable is what I use for mobile work.
PNW_Steve is describing rubber jacketed cable, aka extension cord.

Willie McCoy is describing NM cable, aka Romex

Romex (brand name), or NM cable, as it is generically known, has solid conductors, and may tend to work-harden where subject to movement in mobile applications. Rubber jacketed cable will have stranded conductors that may better serve you in a mobile application. In either case, proper bushing of holes where cables pass through metallic surfaces is essential, as is adequate support of cabling.

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by Phantom5824

Hi o1marc, this is my first post. Master electrician for 22 years, 32 years experience.

Outdoor grade extension cable is what I use for mobile work.
PNW_Steve is describing rubber jacketed cable, aka extension cord.

Willie McCoy is describing NM cable, aka Romex

Romex (brand name), or NM cable, as it is generically known, has solid conductors, and may tend to work-harden where subject to movement in mobile applications. Rubber jacketed cable will have stranded conductors that may better serve you in a mobile application. In either case, proper bushing of holes where cables pass through metallic surfaces is essential, as is adequate support of cabling.

[PNW_Steve]

Originally Posted by Phantom5824

Hi o1marc, this is my first post. Master electrician for 22 years, 32 years experience.

Outdoor grade extension cable is what I use for mobile work.
PNW_Steve is describing rubber jacketed cable, aka extension cord.

Willie McCoy is describing NM cable, aka Romex

Romex (brand name), or NM cable, as it is generically known, has solid conductors, and may tend to work-harden where subject to movement in mobile applications. Rubber jacketed cable will have stranded conductors that may better serve you in a mobile application. In either case, proper bushing of holes where cables pass through metallic surfaces is essential, as is adequate support of cabling.

What I pointed out is NOT "extension cord" aka: SO or SOJ.

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by PNW_Steve

What I pointed out is NOT "extension cord" aka: SO or SOJ.

Is an extension cord not a viable option?

[BlackJohn]

Originally Posted by o1marc

Is an extension cord not a viable option?

There are extension cords and there is cabtire of many types. I used cabtire thru out from the service to all outlets. Nothing wrong with it if done right, extension cords, a flat out NO.


John

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by BlackJohn

extension cords, a flat out NO.


John

Why?

[BlackJohn]

Originally Posted by o1marc

Why?

First, Insurance wouldn't pay. Need any other reasons? Cheap doesn't work for electrical safety, not in wire types or equipment. Needs ULC or CSA approval which you don't get from offshore crap. Support your own country, folks need jobs.


John

[BlackJohn]

Originally Posted by PNW_Steve

12/2 has two conductors. Hot and Neutral.

12/3 has three conductors. Hot, Neutral and Ground.

In our application, allways 12/3.

Not so for Canadian readers.



12/2 is back white with bare ground. Ground is always built into each cable, and always maintained right through each circuit, picking up the junction boxes, switch and receptacle boxes.



12/3 is red, black white and bare ground included also in the cable itself.
Used mostly for split kitchen outlets to give two separate circuits at that location. Also those are tied to a 2 pole breaker because they share the same neutral. If one side trips they both go down to make it safe to open the receptacle for maintenance. Just to be sure, shut the breaker off by switching it on once and then off.


It can also be run to an area needing 2 separate feeds instead of 2 runs of 2/12, so it does make installation less expensive and half the work, if planned out correctly for your application.


I'm thinking you mispoke Steve not mentioning a ground in 12/2 where you did saying 12/3 has a ground but only one circuit. Any 12/3 I have ever heard of has 2 circuits, neutral and a bare ground usually.

Cabtire has an insulated ground in all instances I have ever seen.


Hope this helps


John

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by BlackJohn

First, Insurance wouldn't pay. Need any other reasons? Cheap doesn't work for electrical safety, not in wire types or equipment. Needs ULC or CSA approval which you don't get from offshore crap. Support your own country, folks need jobs.


John

John, you sound like you know what you're talking about, yet you spew so much BS in with no data to back up what you claim. You have no idea what wire my insurance company will cover or not, if you do, please post a link to the clause that says they will deny my claim due to wire used? You say cheap doesn't work with electrical safety, does that mean only the most expensive is safe? Not hardly. You assume anything cheaper than what you recommend must be overseas crap, because America never made anything but high dollar stuff.
There's a master electrician here saying he has 30 years experience dealing with extension cords in vehicle applications with no issues.

[Phantom5824]

I apparently misspoke in my reply to o1marc.
I tender a most sincere apology to all who were offended.

In my excitement to add a relevant comment, I referred to 'rubber jacketed cable' where I should have said 'flexible cable'. Most American non-electricians don't refer to flexible cable by the proper designations found in NFPA70 (The National Electrical Code) Table 400-4, but instead simply call it extension cord.

I concede having no idea what Canadian electricians and non-electricians call the multitude of flexible cable types.

NFPA70 Table 400-4 has all the details for Hard Service cord, and Junior Hard Service cord for anyone who cares.
For what its worth, my extension cords are all UL and/or CSA listed and approved with a variety of Junior Hard Service designations SJT, SJEOO, SJOO, etcetera. They are not cheap offshore crap. Buyer beware.

It was my intention to clarify that when speaking of flexible cables as described in NFPA70 Article 400, the insulated equipment grounding conductor is called-out in all cases. 12/4 xxxx has 4 insulated conductors.

When speaking of building wire, as described in NFPA70 Article 334, the bare equipment grounding conductor is assumed in all cases. ie: 12/2 NM has 2 conductors plus ground.
Further, most non-electricians are unaware of NFPA70 Article 551 covering wiring in Recreational Vehicles and RV Parks as well as being unaware of the requirements of NFPA1192, The Standard on Recreational Vehicles.
I will now revert to mere lurking and quietly reading the useful information buried among these forum threads.

[BlackJohn]

Originally Posted by o1marc

John, you sound like you know what you're talking about, yet you spew so much BS in with no data to back up what you claim. You have no idea what wire my insurance company will cover or not, if you do, please post a link to the clause that says they will deny my claim due to wire used? You say cheap doesn't work with electrical safety, does that mean only the most expensive is safe? Not hardly. You assume anything cheaper than what you recommend must be overseas crap, because America never made anything but high dollar stuff.
There's a master electrician here saying he has 30 years experience dealing with extension cords in vehicle applications with no issues.

Marco, do what you want, you will anyway. But, call your agent and get his thoughts. Maybe he would like to inspect it for quality and correctness.
Otherwise if you have any fire and they see inferior materials and workmanship, they can just deny your claim.


What I said is I used cabtire in my build, not extension cords, see definition of wire types. No issues because I know its limitations, and how to make proper joints, install in such a way as to get no mechanical damage from anything, hot or cold issues, or overloading..all perfectly legal. I never said 30 years of using extension cords in vehicle applications at all. I decided to do mine only this way, because it works, is safe and simple.
It's not just your bus though. I suspect 95% of those here who wired there own buses would get denied insurance if they had any kind of electrical fire no matter what materials were used. They can ask for professional certification proof also and you haven't got a leg to staand on then either if you cobbled your own wiring together.


And then lets not forget the peace of mind going to bed at night and knowing your wiring isn't going to kill you, your family and friends.


Much more to it than your narrow views Marco. I suggest you buy some good smoke detectors and fire extinguishers in your case.


John