Grey/black or just black?

[Desertsparky]

We are in planning stage. We will for sure do a composting toilet. Id like to do a urin diverter. The plan is for a small kitchen sink. Because space is an issue (sleeping 6 in 27 foor but) we are considering either no shower or possibly a wet bath.

What Im trying to figure out is it does not seem to make sense to have a small black tank for pee only and a larger grey tank for sink/possible shower. Would it be advisable to just drain everything to one large black tank. The safety of smells/gas coming through drains for sink and shower drain are my real question.

[rossvtaylor]

In these designs, with a "composting" toilet, I just do a combined tank for urine and shower/sinks and I treat that as I would straight urine...meaning no dumping at the campsite. Even if it were just dirty shower/sink water, with soaps and food debris, it's not cool to dump those at a campsite anyway...so I don't think anything is lost by combining it all.

Even if you handled urine separately, you'd still want hepvo valves in your shower and sink drain lines. Gray tanks stink a lot and without a hepvo valve (or, not as good, a P trap) you'll get stink inside.

[turf]

a single tank is fine, but why compost? that's an extra unnecessary step for disposal.

ptraps or hepvos keep odor out of the living area, same as your house.

black tanks need liquid to work, the more the better.

[Albatross]

Originally Posted by Desertsparky

We are in planning stage. We will for sure do a composting toilet. Id like to do a urin diverter. The plan is for a small kitchen sink. Because space is an issue (sleeping 6 in 27 foor but) we are considering either no shower or possibly a wet bath.

What Im trying to figure out is it does not seem to make sense to have a small black tank for pee only and a larger grey tank for sink/possible shower. Would it be advisable to just drain everything to one large black tank. The safety of smells/gas coming through drains for sink and shower drain are my real question.

This is why gas traps exist.

I would definitely advise for a wet bath, and/or possibly an outdoor shower. You can always put up a pop tent if you're not in a park or some other place that forbids it.

Also, there are realities of composting toilets that make 6 seem a bit much for a single unit, even if it's a two-stage with a massive bucket.

[Desertsparky]

Originally Posted by Albatross

This is why gas traps exist.

I would definitely advise for a wet bath, and/or possibly an outdoor shower. You can always put up a pop tent if you're not in a park or some other place that forbids it.

Also, there are realities of composting toilets that make 6 seem a bit much for a single unit, even if it's a two-stage with a massive bucket.

Im leaning towards wet bath. Just trying to figure out how to make it work with a composting toilet. We are for sure doing the outdoor shower. Our goal is more dispersed camping than parks so making the tank last as long as possible is the goal. We have used composting toilets at my brother in laws cabin so it doesnt scare us.

[Albatross]

You can make it work with a good-sealing lid, or something like a plastic cover made especially for the purpose.

Think something like that naugahyde/plastic checkerboard tablecloth material used in older diners. Cut out the shape of the seat plus an inch or two and and fold it down and sew it together so that it forms a cover that will keep the shower from going into the toilet because it covers the spaces between the lid, the seat, and the bowl.

Or, you know, find one with a lid that basically does the same.

[Desertsparky]

Originally Posted by Albatross

You can make it work with a good-sealing lid, or something like a plastic cover made especially for the purpose.

Think something like that naugahyde/plastic checkerboard tablecloth material used in older diners. Cut out the shape of the seat plus an inch or two and and fold it down and sew it together so that it forms a cover that will keep the shower from going into the toilet because it covers the spaces between the lid, the seat, and the bowl.

Or, you know, find one with a lid that basically does the same.

I was assuming a movable toilet but now that you mention it even a fold down shelf etc to keep water from the top of the throne would be a much easier way. If i can fit it.

[Albatross]

Originally Posted by Desertsparky

I was assuming a movable toilet but now that you mention it even a fold down shelf etc to keep water from the top of the throne would be a much easier way. If i can fit it.

Well, I was assuming that with that many in the family, you'd be working with one of the nicer two-stage composters, maybe with an augur or something that can send it down to a larger composting tank, maybe even with an outside door that you could shovel it out of from; so moving would be out of the option.

But, to me, it seems, that a down-turned lid or crapper-cover makes the most sense, and would be the easiest solution to produce or manufacture.

[Desertsparky]

Originally Posted by Albatross

Well, I was assuming that with that many in the family, you'd be working with one of the nicer two-stage composters, maybe with an augur or something that can send it down to a larger composting tank, maybe even with an outside door that you could shovel it out of from; so moving would be out of the option.

But, to me, it seems, that a down-turned lid or crapper-cover makes the most sense, and would be the easiest solution to produce or manufacture.

Im open to all ideas haha.

[TheArgobus]

We had the exact same plan, even installed a hepvo line from our bathroom to the grey tank. However, we started using a 5-gallon bucket with a garbage bag and cat litter in the interim, and to be honest... we're just going to keep using the cat litter bucket toilet. There really isn't any smell and we have a vent built into the toilet cavity that goes straight outside. (I built a wooden frame with a lid, slapped a toilet seat on top, and put the bucket inside under the toilet seat... works great for us).

[HamSkoolie]

Originally Posted by Albatross

Well, I was assuming that with that many in the family, you'd be working with one of the nicer two-stage composters, maybe with an augur or something that can send it down to a larger composting tank, maybe even with an outside door that you could shovel it out of from; so moving would be out of the option.

But, to me, it seems, that a down-turned lid or crapper-cover makes the most sense, and would be the easiest solution to produce or manufacture.

That looks like an off the shelf shower stall with sink. Toilet either came with as a wet bath or was installed by maker. My question is...... if it's off the shelf.....WHERE DO I FIND IT?

[Dbacks2k4]

Unless you're going to spend a significant amount of time in desert states on public land that permit direct dumping of grey to ground then I'd just combine black and grey and call it a day. That's my plan.

For the former option, bussy mcbussface on YouTube has a good video about his grey/black setup for grey dumping in Arizona
https://youtu.be/By1Jomi3OmI

[DeMac]

Originally Posted by Desertsparky

We are in planning stage. We will for sure do a composting toilet. Id like to do a urin diverter. The plan is for a small kitchen sink. Because space is an issue (sleeping 6 in 27 foor but) we are considering either no shower or possibly a wet bath.

What Im trying to figure out is it does not seem to make sense to have a small black tank for pee only and a larger grey tank for sink/possible shower. Would it be advisable to just drain everything to one large black tank. The safety of smells/gas coming through drains for sink and shower drain are my real question.

We were still bus shopping when TC built ours. Female built & approved, I'm golden. We use ours while we are working on the bus or the land, as our home is 1000+ft from our build site. We compost everything & apply to our non-fruiting trees. Oaks do well.

Check out this skoolie.net thread on this subject.Sh!t & Blossoms Humanure-Composting 101

Smell? None. No, waiting on the composting. Immediately. More like cat, less like dung beatle.

More perminantly: Plug hole (weatherstripping under lid & seat), Vent w/ fan & pvc and/or install a one way air vent for the liquids.

(General PSA) - Pooing into a plastic bag and leaving it in another's trash can, is not considered composting.

[HamSkoolie]

Originally Posted by DeMac

(General PSA) - Pooing into a plastic bag and leaving it in another's trash can, is not considered composting.

Yeah, we looked at so called "composting" toilets and no thanks. Though the argument that we toss baby diapers right into the trash does seem a somewhat valid one...... on the other hand that WAS NOT how things were done until the ME generations got to child bearing (I'd say rearing but did they really?) age. Diapers were cloth, washed or sent out to a diaper service, and the human (aren't they really still parasites until they leave the house??) feces went into the standard human waste treatment stream.


Collecting it and tossing it into a trash bin for land fill is not at all eco friendly. Burying it as fertilizer on your own property is one thing, but if you're traveling?


We're doing a black tank(s), grey tank, reclaimed tank, and fresh tanks. We may provide for collection of AC condensate for filtration into drinking water or collection in the grey or reclamation tank.


We considered incinerating toilets but they all require a liner bag that gets incinerated and they consume too much electric or propane for the incineration process.
With a standard black/grey tank setup (though much larger than standard RV's) and the APPS we use to find free dump sites and potable water...... We think the tanks will be a much superior experience to "composting".

[DeMac]

Originally Posted by HamSkoolie

Yeah, we looked at so called "composting" toilets and no thanks. Though the argument that we toss baby diapers right into the trash does seem a somewhat valid one...... on the other hand that WAS NOT how things were done until the ME generations got to child bearing (I'd say rearing but did they really?) age. Diapers were cloth, washed or sent out to a diaper service, and the human (aren't they really still parasites until they leave the house??) feces went into the standard human waste treatment stream.


Collecting it and tossing it into a trash bin for land fill is not at all eco friendly. Burying it as fertilizer on your own property is one thing, but if you're traveling?


We're doing a black tank(s), grey tank, reclaimed tank, and fresh tanks. We may provide for collection of AC condensate for filtration into drinking water or collection in the grey or reclamation tank.


We considered incinerating toilets but they all require a liner bag that gets incinerated and they consume too much electric or propane for the incineration process.
With a standard black/grey tank setup (though much larger than standard RV's) and the APPS we use to find free dump sites and potable water...... We think the tanks will be a much superior experience to "composting".

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So, just hold it until next year, when the tank is installed? No. Our RV is parked near our conversion & has a black tank. Smells bad, with every flush. Plus, we'd have to bring it to a dump station, so no more "going" in there.



Some builders will need to go, during their commute home. Many others build remotely. An on-board commode (today) will help them to spend more time actually working on their bus. Any pics of yours?

[TheHubbardBus]

Originally Posted by HamSkoolie

Collecting it and tossing it into a trash bin for land fill is not at all eco friendly. Burying it as fertilizer on your own property is one thing, but if you're traveling?

Organic matter - including partially composted poop - is pretty much the only eco-friendly anything you'd find in a landfill. It's all that stuff that isn't readily decomposed that's the issue.

I really don't get the problem some people have with (properly / legally) disposing of composting-toilet contents in the trash. It's the trash for the reason. In any given dumpster, there are countless hazards aside from poop. Don't want to be exposed to them? Stay out of the dumpster. Seems pretty simple to me?

I just started composting our pet waste this summer. Wish I had done it years ago. When we get situated permanently in a more rural locale I'll be composting our waste as well. The way 'we' dispose of & process human waste is really insanity from a sustainability / efficiency standpoint. Perhaps a necessary insanity in the city, but not where we'll be.

[cadillackid]

ive never yet been inside a bus where someone has a "composting" toilet that wasnt a vented setup with fan.. where i didnt smell the toilet... maybe camping people just expect smells.. but I never dug it... a toilet is what has primarily stopped me from really ever overnighting in my DEV bus even.. or going and working out in the middle of nowhere in it...



ive also smelled RVs with broken systems.. black tanks that obviously hadnt been properly cleaned.. or flush valves that dont seal up.. but generally ive only ever noticed an RV toilet with tank when you use it.. ie yeah it stinks a little when you flush it.. (if you drop a load in a house toilet it smells too).. a few minutes with a vent fan and done.. as well as making sure the flush valve works and seals..



ive also used cabin TRUE COMPOST toilets that were vented multi stage.. those units I never smelled.. (diverting the urine of course just like you do with a bucket toilet).. those cabin toilets also had a back door where you shovelled out true compost...



I love my Cat but I surely wouldnt want to use his bathroom all the time...


ive thought about buying a portable cassette style toilet however those dont seem to have a place to put a vent hose.. so I have to wonder if you use the toilet in the morning when its cold.. will it off-gas in the bus when the bus is parked and gets boiling hot.. seems like you want some ability to vent the tank..

[HamSkoolie]

Originally Posted by DeMac

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ny pics of yours?

Everyone's requirements are different. We're not planning to park long term in one spot except the home base which will start with RV hookups and be developed into an off grid home with Skoolie barn/shop and house.
I'll probably be addressing the human waste issue in my next reply to another poster.

[HamSkoolie]

Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus

Organic matter - including partially composted poop - is pretty much the only eco-friendly anything you'd find in a landfill. It's all that stuff that isn't readily decomposed that's the issue.

1. Most "composting toilet" "emissions" shall we call them, are not even partially composted.
2. Human feces is a disease vector for dozens of diseases.
3. Land fills are very eco friendly and in 100 or 200 years will be valuable resources for the economical mining of materials.
4. The requirements for human waste treatment are to ensure the health and safety of humans. There's a reason you can't put your septic drain field next to your water well.
5. You are assuming actual proper composting. Just as those toxic mercury filled curly cue flourescent light bulbs were "safe" when disposed of properly, no one did actually dispose of them properly except government and large corporations with hazardous waste programs. Mom and pop didn't clear the room, don respirators, use tape to pick up debris, or ANY of the other REQUIREMENTS for the safe handling of a broken bulb. And just like that health fiasco, "composting toilets" are a health and safety issue because, frankly, people are stupid.

Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus

I just started composting our pet waste this summer. Wish I had done it years ago. When we get situated permanently in a more rural locale I'll be composting our waste as well. The way 'we' dispose of & process human waste is really insanity from a sustainability / efficiency standpoint. Perhaps a necessary insanity in the city, but not where we'll be.

Big difference between pet waste and human feces. Pet waste if highly unlikely to transmit most diseases that human feces can and does.
You'll be interested to know that there are approved systems for handling waste in rural areas and the systems are scalable. It's call a septic tank and leach or drain field. Some use only gravity, others use a pump. The technology is quite old and quite effective while keeping you away from the toxic waste unless there is a maintenance issue.
I've lived a large portion of my life in the country. Well water and a septic system. I've even had city people freak out that country folk dig a well, pump the water out, and drink it without any filtration. Best water there is. Far superior to the chemically treated crap that comes out of a municipal tap.

[HamSkoolie]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

ive never yet been inside a bus where someone has a "composting" toilet that wasnt a vented setup with fan.. where i didnt smell the toilet...

Yep, without continuous forced ventilation or a sealed lid/seat it's going to smell.....because they all smell and that smell must be mitigated with seals, active or passive ventilation, etc.

Originally Posted by cadillackid

ive also smelled RVs with broken systems.. black tanks that obviously hadnt been properly cleaned.. or flush valves that dont seal up.. but generally ive only ever noticed an RV toilet with tank when you use it.. ie yeah it stinks a little when you flush it.. (if you drop a load in a house toilet it smells too).. a few minutes with a vent fan and done.. as well as making sure the flush valve works and seals.. ..

Yep, most people have no clue that there is an actual lubricant that needs to be used on the flush valve of RV toilets (it's a maintenance item). Or that if there isn't a tiny bit of water at the bottom of the bowl on top of the ball flush valve that there's a LEAK because there should be water there.

Originally Posted by cadillackid

ive thought about buying a portable cassette style toilet however those dont seem to have a place to put a vent hose.. so I have to wonder if you use the toilet in the morning when its cold.. will it off-gas in the bus when the bus is parked and gets boiling hot.. seems like you want some ability to vent the tank..

You've seen these new "safety" fuel cans made out of red plastic with no vent for fuel vapor pressure. Ever try to use one when it's 15 or 20 degrees hotter than when you last had it open? Shoots out explosive vapors like a military fuel air bomb. Well that cassette is going to do the same damn thing if it's warmer than the last time you opened it.....or it has a vent which means you'll smell it all day....and night


If a rig is stationary a honey wagon or septic system is the way to go.
If a rig is moving and you can put in enough black tankage, there are plenty of free places to dump and refill the potable. We're planning around 90-120 gallons black tankage. I found a single 120 tank that was reasonable and would fit perfectly behind the drivers front wheel...... and now its no longer made.....argh. I can get one for about $350 but with $400 shipping which is a "yeah right" kind of deal.