Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 10-28-2021, 01:11 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 23
Year: 1999
Chassis: International Genesis
Engine: Navistar D466
I have stupid questions....

Okay I have a series of dumb questions. I've done a lot of basic plumbing before for my house, and I'm pretty familiar with the really basic stuff, like PEX and fittings and basic PVC stuff. But I have been thinking a lot about how some of that may not apply to a bus or might apply differently, because of the vibrations and movement and pressure differences and importance of water conservation. Plus everything is above ground, and even if you insulate it's still more susceptible to freezing that if it was in your house.

So here are a few things I was thinking, and if anyone could correct me or redirect me that would be awesome. For now things are just layed out but not in stone so it's not too late to change or make improvements!

For my fresh lines I was going to use pex
- 3/4" for the main line, and each branch off would be 1/2"
-Instead of sharkbite fittings I am going to use actual crimp clamps for durability. I have brass fittings because I like them for durability but I heard the black plastic ones are actually less likely to freeze/burst
- I'll have 2 sinks and a shower, no water for the toilet (it's just me), so I was thinking 1 main line for hot and one for cold, with each branching off at the appropriate spot?
-I got a pump rated for 1.5gpm flow, is that enough? I thought about a 3 gpm but do I really want to waste so much water accidently?
- I will put all the plumbing on one side of the bus, within 7-8 feet of each other.
-fresh tank under the bed, right behind the shower, and propane hw heater in a cabinet in the bathroom that I can vent easily.

For the drains, I have access to a BUNCH of heater hose, all 1" diameter. Seriously maybe 100 feet of it. I can get bigger from work if I need. I know typically a drain would be 1.5 pvc, but with the wall cavity being pretty small and needing the hose to not burst/vibrate loose, etc- would the heater hose be okay for grey water drains?
-for the drain lines, do you run each one out the floor as soon as possible? Or would i run it down the wall and then out the floor to the tank?
-on the Hepvo valves, do you do a single one in line before the grey tank, or one at each drain source like you would a P trap?

Lastly- my dad restores old cars and has several fuel tanks laying around that have been drained and cleaned, and he offered me one to modify into a grey tank. Is there any reason why I couldn't use this? It would fit really nicely under my bus, and I can add the drain (outlet) fitting pretty easily I think.

Thanks guys!

Delos356 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 01:13 PM   #2
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,449
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
There are no stupid questions on this forum, only stupid answers!
Danjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 01:23 PM   #3
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 23
Year: 1999
Chassis: International Genesis
Engine: Navistar D466
Oh hey- one more dumb question!!!

I was thinking about doing a glass shower door as the door to my bathroom, is that glass safe for a bus? I like the idea of not closing off an already small space, if I can, but want something more substantial than a shower curtain.
Delos356 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 01:26 PM   #4
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,449
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
PEX is awesome! I am a convert. Your fresh water plan looks fine. I have a 2 GPM pump. It’s plenty. If anything you’ll be looking for ways to restrict flow so you don’t blow through your water so fast. My PEX is all 1/2” and works great. Insulate it with pipe insulation if you can.

All my plumbing is ABS, but I hear of others using spa hose which is like what you have. The only problem I see is making bends. You can use some PVC for that.

The answer to running drain is to run it wherever you can, with the emphasis on a generally downhill trajectory. I put it this way because unlike a house, a bus can be on a slope.

I don’t have experience with Hepvo traps, but you’ll probably be fine with one just before the tank


A steel gas tank will work for your grey tank, though filling it with water is likely to shorten its life unless you line it with something like undercoating or bed liner.
Danjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 01:28 PM   #5
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,449
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delos356 View Post
Oh hey- one more dumb question!!!

I was thinking about doing a glass shower door as the door to my bathroom, is that glass safe for a bus? I like the idea of not closing off an already small space, if I can, but want something more substantial than a shower curtain.
That glass is tempered and pretty tough. A good slam though and it might be a pile of glass crumbs. Should be fine though
Danjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 01:41 PM   #6
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,449
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
Oh, 1” diameter is a little small for a drain, but only because of stuff building up in there. I would personally go 1 1/2”.
Danjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 01:43 PM   #7
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,449
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
WhT about the water heater? Is it going to be properly vented? Don’t want anyone on this forum on page 5 of the local paper for asphyxiation
Danjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 01:45 PM   #8
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 23
Year: 1999
Chassis: International Genesis
Engine: Navistar D466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo View Post
WhT about the water heater? Is it going to be properly vented? Don’t want anyone on this forum on page 5 of the local paper for asphyxiation
Definitely vented- that's why it's not going under the bed! lol
Plan was to build out a cabinet in the wall behind the toilet, and vent it up from there, or straight out the wall, or both.
Delos356 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 01:53 PM   #9
Mini-Skoolie
 
Jay Brand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Springfield Missouri
Posts: 17
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Bluebird TC2000
Engine: 24 valve 5.9 cummins
Rated Cap: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo View Post
That glass is tempered and pretty tough. A good slam though and it might be a pile of glass crumbs. Should be fine though

I am a glass estimator/installer and I agree with Danjo. Tempered glass is tough but it still is glass so one hard braking incident could shatter it.
Make sure you can secure the door, slider panel etc.... So when your driving it does not move.
You will definitely have to have a custom door or slider made. It's highly doubtful you will find a kit that will fit a bus application. If a glass door is what you want, find your door then build your enclosure to fit it.
Also something to remember, a glass shower door is not a submarine hatch, it will have small droplets that will slip through.
Jay Brand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 03:03 PM   #10
Bus Geek
 
o1marc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,409
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
HepVo and "P" traps are for keeping odor from backing up, with a Hepvo, put it right before the tank.
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
o1marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 07:15 PM   #11
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Northern California (Sacramento)
Posts: 573
Year: 1999
Coachwork: El Dorado Fiberglass
Chassis: Ford E450
Engine: V10 Gas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delos356 View Post
Oh hey- one more dumb question!!!

I was thinking about doing a glass shower door as the door to my bathroom, is that glass safe for a bus? I like the idea of not closing off an already small space, if I can, but want something more substantial than a shower curtain.
As long as you use a real shower door you should be fine. Shower doors use tempered glass which does not shatter like regular glass.
Rucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 07:19 PM   #12
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Northern California (Sacramento)
Posts: 573
Year: 1999
Coachwork: El Dorado Fiberglass
Chassis: Ford E450
Engine: V10 Gas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delos356 View Post
Okay I have a series of dumb questions. I've done a lot of basic plumbing before for my house, and I'm pretty familiar with the really basic stuff, like PEX and fittings and basic PVC stuff. But I have been thinking a lot about how some of that may not apply to a bus or might apply differently, because of the vibrations and movement and pressure differences and importance of water conservation. Plus everything is above ground, and even if you insulate it's still more susceptible to freezing that if it was in your house.

So here are a few things I was thinking, and if anyone could correct me or redirect me that would be awesome. For now things are just layed out but not in stone so it's not too late to change or make improvements!

For my fresh lines I was going to use pex
- 3/4" for the main line, and each branch off would be 1/2"
-Instead of sharkbite fittings I am going to use actual crimp clamps for durability. I have brass fittings because I like them for durability but I heard the black plastic ones are actually less likely to freeze/burst
- I'll have 2 sinks and a shower, no water for the toilet (it's just me), so I was thinking 1 main line for hot and one for cold, with each branching off at the appropriate spot?
-I got a pump rated for 1.5gpm flow, is that enough? I thought about a 3 gpm but do I really want to waste so much water accidently?
- I will put all the plumbing on one side of the bus, within 7-8 feet of each other.
-fresh tank under the bed, right behind the shower, and propane hw heater in a cabinet in the bathroom that I can vent easily.

For the drains, I have access to a BUNCH of heater hose, all 1" diameter. Seriously maybe 100 feet of it. I can get bigger from work if I need. I know typically a drain would be 1.5 pvc, but with the wall cavity being pretty small and needing the hose to not burst/vibrate loose, etc- would the heater hose be okay for grey water drains?
-for the drain lines, do you run each one out the floor as soon as possible? Or would i run it down the wall and then out the floor to the tank?
-on the Hepvo valves, do you do a single one in line before the grey tank, or one at each drain source like you would a P trap?

Lastly- my dad restores old cars and has several fuel tanks laying around that have been drained and cleaned, and he offered me one to modify into a grey tank. Is there any reason why I couldn't use this? It would fit really nicely under my bus, and I can add the drain (outlet) fitting pretty easily I think.

Thanks guys!
I used Pex crimp clamps, not sharkbite. Both seem fine but Pex is very reliable-I can wrench around the line and they do not leak.

I did NOT use plastic connectors. Not sure if they are bad, I just wanted a pretty bulletproof system.

Half inch lines seem fine if you're not making long runs however if you have an instant water heater you'll need to keep the pump close to the heater. Those water heaters need a minimum flow of water, input water temperatures within a range, and a minimum of water pressure, which may be hard to hold when you first open the faucet.
Rucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2021, 07:22 PM   #13
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 2,449
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Minotour
Engine: Chevy Express 3500 6.6l
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rucker View Post
I used Pex crimp clamps, not sharkbite. Both seem fine but Pex is very reliable-I can wrench around the line and they do not leak.

I did NOT use plastic connectors. Not sure if they are bad, I just wanted a pretty bulletproof system.

Half inch lines seem fine if you're not making long runs however if you have an instant water heater you'll need to keep the pump close to the heater. Those water heaters need a minimum flow of water, input water temperatures within a range, and a minimum of water pressure, which may be hard to hold when you first open the faucet.
Yep yep yep
Danjo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2021, 10:02 AM   #14
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 23
Year: 1999
Chassis: International Genesis
Engine: Navistar D466
Thank you guys for all the help! This is the water heater I am looking at, because it doesn't require venting (I'm still going to vent it) and it only requires 2 psi of pressure to start. I'll still have the heater mounted less than 2-3 feet away from the pump though.
Where does the accumulator go? After the pump, before the heater?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0977N2DB3...v_ov_lig_dp_it
Delos356 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2021, 10:22 AM   #15
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Northern California (Sacramento)
Posts: 573
Year: 1999
Coachwork: El Dorado Fiberglass
Chassis: Ford E450
Engine: V10 Gas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delos356 View Post
Thank you guys for all the help! This is the water heater I am looking at, because it doesn't require venting (I'm still going to vent it) and it only requires 2 psi of pressure to start. I'll still have the heater mounted less than 2-3 feet away from the pump though.
Where does the accumulator go? After the pump, before the heater?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0977N2DB3...v_ov_lig_dp_it
Accumulator goes anywhere on the pressurized system but preferably right after the pump.

I've seen some youtube videos on the installation of that particular unit, so that's somewhere to look.

I also recommend mocking up your water system and testing the water heater out. You may not need a shower mixer valve and in fact a mixer valve may prevent the water heater from working correctly-it's designed, as best as I can tell, to produce hot water at the final temperature.

When I commissioned my system I got a feel for how mine worked, and ended up redoing the plumbing to accomodate.

For instance, I had a hot water recirculation system to create a little more volume of hot water and get rid of the initial blast of cold water. Didn't work, because the hot water coming back into the inlet valve would trip the inlet high temp monitor and the unit would not come on.

Also, I had a backflow valve as part of that system that restricted flow just enough that the inlet water pressure dropped below threshold to fire the unit up. If I ran two faucets, it would come on, and stay on if I shut one off. But one faucet alone was not enough demand on the Shurflo pump to keep the pressure above minimum (since it had to force the one-way backflow valve).

Got rid of both the recirc system and the backflow valve and the heater ran perfectly. The initial shot of cold water is brief and won't drain the tank, so I'm going to leave it that way for now.

I now know much more about how that heater works and can rethink the recirc system, which I'd still like to do but need to put in more design time.

The point of all this is to say you may need to install and then tweak your system to get it working the way you want. Try not to make the installation too permanent initially, and do some testing before burying line in the walls.
Rucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2021, 10:45 AM   #16
Bus Geek
 
ol trunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: So Cal
Posts: 3,133
Year: 1935
Coachwork: Superior
Chassis: Chevy
Engine: 317 ci/tid / Isuzu
Rucker, when you work on your recirculation design include a thermocouple switch just after the water heater to control the burner. That will keep the water at +/- 2 degrees of your setting and "correct" for warmer water entering the heater as the water supply warms up. A dedicated hot water pump along with an accumulator will manage flow rate/pressure issues and you won't waste any water.
Jack
ol trunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2021, 11:15 AM   #17
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Northern California (Sacramento)
Posts: 573
Year: 1999
Coachwork: El Dorado Fiberglass
Chassis: Ford E450
Engine: V10 Gas
Quote:
Originally Posted by ol trunt View Post
Rucker, when you work on your recirculation design include a thermocouple switch just after the water heater to control the burner. That will keep the water at +/- 2 degrees of your setting and "correct" for warmer water entering the heater as the water supply warms up. A dedicated hot water pump along with an accumulator will manage flow rate/pressure issues and you won't waste any water.
Jack
I think there are other things to take into account. Those instant water heaters are too clever by half.

I'm at the final stages of my build so I probably won't get back to the recirculation system for a bit. But I will post my experiment/experience to lay out what I've learned in more detail so I can see exactly the kind of advice you share.

In addition to the above, I'm pretty sure that I need to mix down the temperature of the water that is recirculating into the water heater to be slightly below its outlet temp. I also think I need to throttle the recirc pump so it recirculates but doesn't trigger the water heater to turn on.
Rucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2021, 06:41 PM   #18
Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 247
Do what suits your needs. I will never use pex again. Rodents go thru it as if it were candy floss. I’m out in the country and rodents in search of water is an issue.
I like copper, properly secured it will last a long time.
Dirtdoctor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2021, 06:52 PM   #19
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtdoctor View Post
Rodents go thru it as if it were candy floss.

That sounds messy.


What standoffs/mounts do you use to keep copper from springing leaks with motion?
TomDPerkins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2021, 08:55 AM   #20
Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 247
Tom- the same poly mounts you use in a home. I have used the flex pvc with a threaded fittings to go from the tanks to the line. So there is some flex. But for everything else. I just use copper and properly secure it.
Dirtdoctor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.