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Old 01-16-2021, 01:25 PM   #21
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A few more pictures ..

Propane line (copper)

I ran PEX A water lines to a valve then used stainless braided supply lines to go to the water heater, faucets, etc.
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Old 04-09-2022, 07:06 PM   #22
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Those copper LP lines will work harden then break. Look into replacing with hoses designed for LP.
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Old 04-10-2022, 08:55 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Luddite View Post
Those copper LP lines will work harden then break. Look into replacing with hoses designed for LP.
Are you saying they will work harden from the slight flexing that may occur when the bus chassis flexes?

I don't want to turn this into a negative discussion, but I do have to ask this question(s): don't you have to bend a metal past it's ductility to plastically deform it? And don't you have to physically bend a piece of metal back and forth multiple times (plastic deformation) to eventually break it? If I flex a piece of 1" steel strap without going past that point where it bends and stays, will it ever break?

I'm basing my questions off of steel. Because I work with steel in the manufacturing industry. I don't know copper characteristics, but assume it is a metal just like steel and that's why I'm asking the question. I've heard the same comment about using Romex in a bus/camper etc. I'm really wanting to find the real answer on this and Romex, but I don't want to start a negative argument about it as I really don't know and the thought of cracking propane lines scares me!! So either way, thank you for taking the time to ask.
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Old 04-10-2022, 11:50 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frochevy View Post
Are you saying they will work harden from the slight flexing that may occur when the bus chassis flexes?

I don't want to turn this into a negative discussion, but I do have to ask this question(s): don't you have to bend a metal past it's ductility to plastically deform it? And don't you have to physically bend a piece of metal back and forth multiple times (plastic deformation) to eventually break it? If I flex a piece of 1" steel strap without going past that point where it bends and stays, will it ever break?

I'm basing my questions off of steel. Because I work with steel in the manufacturing industry. I don't know copper characteristics, but assume it is a metal just like steel and that's why I'm asking the question. I've heard the same comment about using Romex in a bus/camper etc. I'm really wanting to find the real answer on this and Romex, but I don't want to start a negative argument about it as I really don't know and the thought of cracking propane lines scares me!! So either way, thank you for taking the time to ask.
"don't you have to bend a metal past it's ductility to plastically deform it?"
this is true to deform it...but he is talking about breaking or cracking it, not deforming it.

A good completely hardened piece of high carbon steel will break before it will take a permanent bend.


If I remember correctly from my strength of materials class in the early 70's, ductility refers to a metals ability to be mashed into thin sheets/foil with out hardening/tearing. Plasticity is the materials ability to deform to and maintain a different shape (think lump 0f soft modeling clay) as opposed to elasticity which is the ability to stretch and still return to its original shape. Think rubber band.

Cold forming/rolling hardens many different types of metals by work hardening, as opposed to hot forming/rolling.


I think he is referring to a form of cold work hardening referred to as "fatigue hardening" (which is also what happens in your bending example, only it is much faster and usually intentional) a condition, that is usually caused by vibration, where the metal forms small cracks and then fails. They used to refer to a helicopter as a "fatigue machine" because parts constantly have to be replaced before they break from fatigue hardening.) The 2 most often used vibration solutions used in air compressor tubes connecting the vibrating compressor and the stationary non vibrating tank and the like are 1) use a substitute flexible material usually rubber or plastic or 2) coil the metal in a few loops/coils to absorb the vibration - old school.

That said, when I read his comment, I really couldn't see that much vibration, however, a failure here could be catastrophic, so it might be better to use a rubber hose (which is pretty common). After all, propane has as least 3 ways to ruin your day - fire, explosion, and asphyxiation. TOXIC??


I am using the word catastrophic in the sense that it is sudden, (little or no warning) with complete and disastrous results.
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Old 04-10-2022, 11:54 PM   #25
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"don't you have to bend a metal past it's ductility to plastically deform it?"
this is true to deform it...but he is talking about breaking or cracking it.


I think he is referring to a form of work gardening referred to as "fatigue hardening" (which is also what happens in your bending example, only it is much faster) a condition that is usually caused by vibration (they used to refer to a helicopter as a "fatigue machine" and parts constantly have to be replaced before they break) and form small cracks and then fail. The 2 most often used solutions in air compressors and the like are 1) use a substitute material usually rubber or plastic or 2) coil the metal in a few coils to absorb the vibration - old school.


That said, when I read his comment, I really couldn't see that much vibration, however, a failure here could be catastrophic, so it might be better to use a rubber hose (which is pretty common).


I am using the word catastrophic in the sense that is sudden, (little or no warning) with complete and disastrous results.
I appreciate the response and that makes sense. What kind of rubber hose and fittings are people using? This would be fairly easy for me to change. I don't think there is much flexing or vibration, but it's not worth the risk of something were to happen like you guys mention.
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Old 04-11-2022, 02:24 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Frochevy View Post
I appreciate the response and that makes sense. What kind of rubber hose and fittings are people using? This would be fairly easy for me to change. I don't think there is much flexing or vibration, but it's not worth the risk of something were to happen like you guys mention.



You might check with a local propane dealer or 2 to see what your options are.
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Old 04-11-2022, 08:01 PM   #27
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I was given a stove and other items out of an old camper. The propane line going to the stove appeared to be copper and it looked to be a factory install. I was always told not to use copper in a mobile environment so this surprised me.
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Old 04-12-2022, 02:51 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frochevy View Post
Are you saying they will work harden from the slight flexing that may occur when the bus chassis flexes?

I don't want to turn this into a negative discussion, but I do have to ask this question(s): don't you have to bend a metal past it's ductility to plastically deform it? And don't you have to physically bend a piece of metal back and forth multiple times (plastic deformation) to eventually break it? If I flex a piece of 1" steel strap without going past that point where it bends and stays, will it ever break?

I'm basing my questions off of steel. Because I work with steel in the manufacturing industry. I don't know copper characteristics, but assume it is a metal just like steel and that's why I'm asking the question. I've heard the same comment about using Romex in a bus/camper etc. I'm really wanting to find the real answer on this and Romex, but I don't want to start a negative argument about it as I really don't know and the thought of cracking propane lines scares me!! So either way, thank you for taking the time to ask.
I'm not convinced copper supply lines like the one in the picture are particularly prone to work hardening and catastrophic failure.

Yes, we understand the science of it well enough to know there is a risk.

If the lines are properly supported and the amount of flex or movement between connections is low (read: secure your propane tanks from movement; use flexible rubber grommets to secure your lines) the likelihood of cracks or failure drops to almost nothing.

For the record my propane lines are all standard LP flex hoses, and I've installed them to be replaced every other year or so.
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Old 04-13-2022, 11:51 AM   #29
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I have mine installed in a "closet" in the bathroom. I also have the Excel, which supposedly doesn't require venting. I did PEX for all of my water lines, with brass fittings and crimp/-style clamps. I find this is really resistant to freezing and easy to work with- plus the vibrations shouldn't be an issue. Fingers crossed!
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Old 08-14-2022, 07:35 PM   #30
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I have an excel water heater in my Skoolie and had an issue today while camping taking an outdoor shower. My gas inlet line melted, caught fire which then melted my hot water out pex line causing a mess. Anyone have any ideas why this would have happen. Iíve only used it for two showers so far and kitchen sink.
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Old 08-15-2022, 12:50 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by 57ratrod View Post
I have an excel water heater in my Skoolie and had an issue today while camping taking an outdoor shower. My gas inlet line melted, caught fire which then melted my hot water out pex line causing a mess. Anyone have any ideas why this would have happen. Iíve only used it for two showers so far and kitchen sink.
WHOA! That sounds scary!

Can you post a pic of how it was hooked up? Propane gas shouldn't ever get hot, so I'm not sure how it would have melted unless it caught on fire first.
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Old 08-15-2022, 03:13 PM   #32
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sounds like it experience Rollout which is where the flame burns backwards due to a positive pressure on the vent (or blocked vent).. or a clogged burner orifice.. it could also be that there was a leak that is past the gas valve and the gas lit-off there..



why was the gas inlet Plastic?? shouldnt it have been copper?
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Old 08-15-2022, 03:48 PM   #33
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why was the gas inlet Plastic?? shouldnt it have been copper?

I would think copper or a flexible appliance (my choice) gas line (with valve at base of the flex line).
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Old 08-15-2022, 05:04 PM   #34
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How do I post pictures, using an iPad
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Old 08-15-2022, 05:13 PM   #35
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Old 08-15-2022, 07:13 PM   #36
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Old 08-16-2022, 11:30 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by 57ratrod View Post
I have an excel water heater in my Skoolie and had an issue today while camping taking an outdoor shower. My gas inlet line melted, caught fire which then melted my hot water out pex line causing a mess. Anyone have any ideas why this would have happen. Iíve only used it for two showers so far and kitchen sink.
Electrical fire first then it melted the line?
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Old 08-16-2022, 01:35 PM   #38
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That would be my guess also--might see what the mfg has to say about it.
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Old 08-16-2022, 04:10 PM   #39
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It looks to me like the gas inlet fitting was never properly sealed. The brass fitting shown in the picture has a very distorted rubber seal in it, but there is no thread sealant on the fitting. Heat and flame go upwards, so the melted electrical parts are just collateral damage.
I would never use a rubber gas hose inside a vehicle.
Is that propane tank secured in any way?
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Old 08-16-2022, 05:22 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by jimmythomas View Post
It looks to me like the gas inlet fitting was never properly sealed. The brass fitting shown in the picture has a very distorted rubber seal in it, but there is no thread sealant on the fitting. Heat and flame go upwards, so the melted electrical parts are just collateral damage.
I would never use a rubber gas hose inside a vehicle.
Is that propane tank secured in any way?
I hate propane fittings for this reason.

Is the gas inlet on the heater 1/2" NPT? If so, that fitting is not the right type.
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