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Old 10-13-2017, 12:44 PM   #21
Mini-Skoolie
 
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1. I'm not playing with poop. I'm playing with greywater. We will be using a composting toilet so there will be no black water tank. Shower drain and sink drain, relatively free of dyes and chemicals (just oils and skin cells, as well as some biodegradable soaps) should be able to be filtered back to potable, some would argue. With enough filtering it should be no problem putting it back into a garden on the roof.

2. The design I'm planning will feature sq ft gardening, a container technique that maximizes yield in small spaces. The area will be mostly for starting plants through the use of a hoop house that will be installed while parked. This will allow for gardening if we park in a city or don't have space.

3. Rabbit poop is basically pure nitrogen, odorless, and almost indistinguishable from dirt. When mixed with hay and some finished compost I think the growing medium will have excellent nutrient density, drainage, and aggregation. Beneath the garden will be graded drainage that will drain back into the catchment system running towards the back of the bus. This will also be where the gutters on the bus drain to. A hose/pump for this will recycle garden water back into the garden. This is something I've put a lot of design work into and it's fine if you want to be the harbinger of my future doom.

I feel as though I've got some good leads through this conversation.

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Old 10-13-2017, 12:54 PM   #22
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I've seen people build gray water planters. This concept was something I first heard of in books about Earthships. My first introduction to the concept of off-grid living that didn't involve a log cabin in the woods with buckets of water from the creek over yonder. These folks even have systems where they use the greywater to flush toilets. YMMV.

The thing about these planters is, they're usually created with deep trenches, lined with plastic or some similar material, then filled in with rocks, sand and other stuff. This stuff acts as a natural filter of sorts.

In any event, my point is, while this is great for a stationary project, doesn't really work for a moving bus.

There's tons of stuff on YouTube and Google about grey water planters.
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Old 10-13-2017, 01:45 PM   #23
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Animals that don't eat meat produce waste. Which is a very sutible fertilizer for plants. Even plants for consumption. Sounds more to me like he was making compost out of it which is even better for the plants.
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Old 10-13-2017, 03:51 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McPuccio View Post
1. I'm not playing with poop. I'm playing with greywater. We will be using a composting toilet so there will be no black water tank. Shower drain and sink drain, relatively free of dyes and chemicals (just oils and skin cells, as well as some biodegradable soaps) should be able to be filtered back to potable, some would argue. With enough filtering it should be no problem putting it back into a garden on the roof.
Sorry, I though by "poop" you were talking about human poop. Rabbit poop is a different story, a much less toxic story.

A couple of problems with playing with grey water is-

Wasteful- Filtering can be expensive, materiel consuming and time consuming. You can end up wasting a lot of resources on waste water=spend a dollar on a penny.
If you are trying to save resources filtering gray water will most likely waste more resources along with money and time.

Bacteria- Most grey water will have stuff like food materials which rot, mold and grow funky stuff. Most grey water I have seen of or disposed of ran into a patch of weeds or forest. It was usually full of flies and if you dug down it would be full of mold. If you have a garden mold and bacteria can destroy it.

From a bath or shower you can use something like Dr Bronner's soap and it will not kill most plants but you are still washing sweat and bacteria off of yourself with it, you might not want to put it in food grade plants.

just my 2 cents.
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Old 10-13-2017, 07:59 PM   #25
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Where water is in short supply none of those issues would concern me, personally.
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Old 10-14-2017, 09:11 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by ACamper View Post
Sorry, I though by "poop" you were talking about human poop. Rabbit poop is a different story, a much less toxic story.

A couple of problems with playing with grey water is-

Wasteful- Filtering can be expensive, materiel consuming and time consuming. You can end up wasting a lot of resources on waste water=spend a dollar on a penny.
If you are trying to save resources filtering gray water will most likely waste more resources along with money and time.

Bacteria- Most grey water will have stuff like food materials which rot, mold and grow funky stuff. Most grey water I have seen of or disposed of ran into a patch of weeds or forest. It was usually full of flies and if you dug down it would be full of mold. If you have a garden mold and bacteria can destroy it.

From a bath or shower you can use something like Dr Bronner's soap and it will not kill most plants but you are still washing sweat and bacteria off of yourself with it, you might not want to put it in food grade plants.

just my 2 cents.
I was planning on making my own filter a la https://www.doityourself.com/stry/building-a-grey-water-filter

The premise is basically that you filter out most solids and oils and the charcoal catches the bacteria. We are hoping to travel through desert areas and are not above boiling water before we drink it (although that last part is probably emergencies only.)
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Old 10-14-2017, 09:15 AM   #27
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I was planning on making my own filter a la https://www.doityourself.com/stry/bu...y-water-filter

The premise is basically that you filter out most solids and oils and the charcoal catches the bacteria. We are hoping to travel through desert areas and are not above boiling water before we drink it (although that last part is probably emergencies only.)
Charcoal binds chemical toxins, it doesn't "catch" bacteria. Only anti-bacterial agents can kill bacteria (bleach, etc)
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Old 10-14-2017, 09:18 AM   #28
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16 drops of bleach will purify one gallon of water.
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Old 10-14-2017, 09:20 AM   #29
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16 drops of bleach will purify one gallon of water.
... and it won't hurt the plants.

The chlorine gasses off quite quickly, what is left will be fine for plants.
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Old 10-14-2017, 09:23 AM   #30
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It shouldn't hurt the plants. After an hour or so you could drink the water.
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Old 10-14-2017, 10:33 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by McPuccio View Post
I was planning on making my own filter a la https://www.doityourself.com/stry/bu...y-water-filter

The premise is basically that you filter out most solids and oils and the charcoal catches the bacteria. We are hoping to travel through desert areas and are not above boiling water before we drink it (although that last part is probably emergencies only.)
One problem with grey water is it can have lots of funk. Food particles, oils, soap scum and such that will clog up the filters fast, then you are replacing or cleaning them. Which goes back to using more resources then you save. Filters full of scum will also grow strange bacteria and funk pretty quick.

In deserts much of the solids in water are dirt and minerals if you take a plan bucket fill it with water let it sit undisturbed for 12-24 hrs most of that stuff(like 95%) will settle and you will save your filter a lot of wear and tear.

Like Greatestrr and Twigg were says Bleach works well for bacteria. It is a ghetto and many people don't like, it but it does work. With a small water source, a gallon of Bleach and a couple of buckets and you could make a lot of drinkable water for dirt cheap.
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:30 AM   #32
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Well for potable water we'd boil it, but I plan on having steady intake of freshwater, but after that it'll enter the loop of our filtering -> gray water -> garden -> water catchment -> garden.

Good idea on letting it settle before running it through the filter to get rid of dirt.
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:42 AM   #33
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Well for potable water we'd boil it, but I plan on having steady intake of freshwater, but after that it'll enter the loop of our filtering -> gray water -> garden -> water catchment -> garden.

Good idea on letting it settle before running it through the filter to get rid of dirt.
If you are looking to save resources your set up is very wasteful.

Boiling = fuel

Filters for dirty water = lots of new filters

But if you have plenty of resources, time and money to waste who cares.
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:44 AM   #34
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Such systems only make sense when water is extremely limited.
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Old 10-14-2017, 05:27 PM   #35
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Such systems only make sense when water is extremely limited.
Ergo, offgrid water is not so plentiful. Also, unlike some, I don't believe water will be so plentiful in the future. Finally, this is an experiment. My hypothesis is that I can grow food using my gray water and basic filtering instead of putting it into the drains.
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Old 10-14-2017, 06:19 PM   #36
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I'd say a kind of aquaponics might be better put the gray in the fish tank. Let the bluegill eat the waste make mitrites plants thrive.
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Old 10-14-2017, 06:20 PM   #37
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Then you have fish not just plants
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Old 10-14-2017, 08:20 PM   #38
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I love the idea of aquaponics but I've never done it in an open space, much less the limited bus space we will have.
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Old 10-14-2017, 08:50 PM   #39
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Then you won't be getting a lot of veggies either.

One of the key concepts in Permaculture is putting down roots, developing a productive engineered ecosystem to support future generations in a specific place.

Living in a mobile home roaming around isn't so conducive to that.
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Old 10-15-2017, 08:57 AM   #40
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Then you won't be getting a lot of veggies either.

One of the key concepts in Permaculture is putting down roots, developing a productive engineered ecosystem to support future generations in a specific place.

Living in a mobile home roaming around isn't so conducive to that.
Ideally we'll be hired by the outdoor school we've applied/interviewed at and we'll be able to put down "roots" for 6ish months. This rooftop business is mostly for seedlings and minor greenhousing. We will also have a fair number of containers that we will be putting outside around the bus when parked.

Also, this bus will hopefully be a means for us to work without emptying half our income into rent, enabling us to purchase land and practice permaculture full time.
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