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Old 10-15-2009, 03:05 PM   #1
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RV Toilets, black and grey wars

To all RV toilet experts...and sailboat toilet experts.

I am laying out my floor plan...again. Knowing nothing about rv toilets I am under the impression that they have to go directly on top, ie. attached to the black water tank.

I would like to mount the thing elevated just on the back side of the wheel well, say half way up and use a 45* to 45* to the black water tank which would be mounted just behind the tires. Other than a little more water being used to get the "shite" where it needed to be, would there be a problem with this scenario?

Or, how about a pump toilet? How much water do these things use. It would seem alot but I don't have a clue.

Which brings me to the "why seperate the grey and black water" discussion. Is there a reason for this ie. spread the weight out or what?

S
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Old 10-15-2009, 05:46 PM   #2
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Re: RV Toilets, black and grey wars

Theres a ton of debate on combined vs seperate tanks. I think it is correct (although old school) that seperate tanks allow you to prolong dumping since you used to be able to dump gray anywhere. Most places dont allow this anymore. Alot of people say combined tanks are better since you have more water which helps flush out the solids better. An RV toilet uses such little water that (I guess) it can become an issue with solids building up. I personally went with a combined tank. If you plan on using a 2 45s to get to the tank you should really measure to see how much room you have. We went this route with the smaller sink drains and had a tough time with clearance which would only be worse with a 3" fitting. I would bet 2 45s in 3" pipe would drop you down close to a foot not to mention the rear axle and other items really being a pain to manuever around. If you had to remote mount the toilet and did not have a direct drop a marine macerating toilet might work better since you can use a flexible pipe and run it where you need to.
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:13 PM   #3
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Re: RV Toilets, black and grey wars

As for the issue of one tank or two, I can only state from experience that you will have to dump gray water more often than the black water, and generally speaking running gray water down AFTER you are done dumping the black helps to clean out the dump hose...

For the piping, the toilet doesn't have to go directly over the tank, it's just easier to plum them that way, and it makes checking to see if the tank is full much easier, open the toilet valve and shine a flashlight down there and see what the level is. I've got a friend with a Keystone Montana 5th wheel, his toilet is piped at angles to the tanks.

My own bus is the same way, the tanks are forward of the toilet, I just ran the pipes with a decent incline (actually decline) to the tank.

First image is a bit blurry... but it shows the run from the toilet flange down and forward...



And the next one shows the pipe going down through the cargo deck floor to the tank... note the 1.5" pipe poking up, that is for the vent stack...



I used slip grommets in the tank, made fitting the pipe to the tank extremely simple.




There are many sources for tanks, but the best deal I found for them was on ebay from, Tri-State Rock Your World seller is where i go mine from, he's got 36 gal tanks for $50 and also sells the slip grommets... He's not the quickest shipper on ebay, but he comes through!!

For other RV specific things, there is another dealer and though they have almost the same name they are totally different sellers. Tri-State Surplus has a lot of great deals, she is a fast shipper too. I have bought from this seller over a dozen times!!
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:20 PM   #4
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Re: RV Toilets, black and grey wars

I had to off set mine with a 45 into another 45 then the tank and it works fine.
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:21 PM   #5
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Re: RV Toilets, black and grey wars

I went with a combined 55 gallon black/grey tank. I also installed a valve before the tank that allows me to drain just grey water (kitchen sink and shower) by itself before reaching the tank. This way I can run a simple garden hose to a good drain sight and use all of the water I wish to with just the toilet filling the tank.
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Old 10-16-2009, 08:41 AM   #6
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Re: RV Toilets, black and grey wars

All good info....

So it seems that we have seperate tanks, mainly, because there was a time when gray water was disposed of differently than black water, i.e. gray water on the ground, black water in the tank. There are times when I will be in a location where that MAY be acceptable and preffered. Most of the time that will not be the case. I will have to hold all of it and carry it out(right Millicent burner?)
Time for a pro and con column to help with the decision. One tank installation would be easier by far. I do not believe my application will allow for the gray water to flush thru the black water tank.

On the plus side I did come up with a good floor plan(for my application) that will allow direct plumbing into the black tank. I have learned of a rule on tour buses among band members. No shite on the bus, literally. I wonder if I can make that stick on my bus...uh, I mean flow, stick bad

On a side note. I really enjoy putting this thing together. There is so much information and creativity here it gets my wheels turning but I need two things currently not forthcoming. More money and more time. Don't we all.............
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:22 AM   #7
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Re: RV Toilets, black and grey wars

This may be a little lo-tech, but what about putting a plastic grocery baggie inside the toilet to capture the 'leavins' (aka as when one takes her doggie for a walk) and then dispose of the waste that way. Could save some tankspace when you're on the road/near rest stop garbage cans.
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:12 AM   #8
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Re: RV Toilets, black and grey wars

What is a good rule of thumb for water usage per day per person. I am figuring 5 gallons. Does this seem excessive?

Also, I have found a blackwater tank that is near perfect size for my loction on the cheap. Does it matter where I cut the inlet hole for the toilet ie. do I need to tay away from the outlet to possibly reduce clogging?
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Old 10-18-2009, 01:24 PM   #9
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Re: RV Toilets, black and grey wars

So, assuming 60 gallons of fresh water capacity, I assume 65-75 gallons of black and gray water capacity. Other than being ALOT of water do the ratios seem ok?
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Old 10-18-2009, 07:11 PM   #10
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Re: RV Toilets, black and grey wars

I used the same tank from tristate. Tough to beat the price, 36 gal for $100 delivered.
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Old 10-18-2009, 08:07 PM   #11
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Re: RV Toilets, black and grey wars

I found two seperate tanks(one 46, one 27) that will fit where I want it to go. I need a few more measurements before I pull the trigger. It looks like, at a minimum, I will be able to move grey water into the black water tank via gravity if the grey water gets full faster but not in a flushing fashion. I'll probably install flush valves into each tank. They will have tank sensors so I might as well. There is alot of stuff going underneath this bus so space is at a premium. They will be stacked on top of each other in some configuration directly underneath the toilet and shower. Im not sure where the p-trap on the shower is going yet hence the need for a final measurement, plus there is an exhaust pipe to work around that will probably require a heat shield of some sort. I'll make it work one way or another. Even if I have to reroute an exhaust pipe. That will give me an excuse to increase exhaust flow(by various methods) and tune the engine up a bit.
At any rate the plumbing location was the major hurdle. Everything else will play out around it fairly well. I wish I knew a bit more about how this stuff works in real time. I have had an old Yellowstone and an Airstream but neither one had "original" working plumbing. The Yellowstone was "modified residential" by yours truly for hunting leases. The Airstream was a project never started and sold to buy the bus. Needless to say i'm good at riggin' it but this go-round it has to work right and look good because my kids principal may be visiting it during the playoffs.
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:26 PM   #12
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Re: RV Toilets, black and grey wars

Quote:
They will have tank sensors
No personal experience, but FWIW what I've read on RV forums: The sensors that have probes inside the tanks get gunked up in short order, and fail to read properly. People either pretend that they do not have gauges and go back to estimating, or they spend a lot of time and effort trying to keep the probes clean.

There is an alternate style that mounts electronics against the outside of the tank, and electronically senses the presence of the liquid through the plastic tank walls. This style is reported to be reliable. As always, YMMV.
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Old 10-19-2009, 11:04 AM   #13
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Re: RV Toilets, black and grey wars

I talked to a guy that had a 32 gallon black tank (only) no grey. He said that he had reached the point where his black tank could last him (by himself) up to 30 days. His grey water tank was a 5 gallon bucket that he emptied regularly.
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Old 10-19-2009, 04:34 PM   #14
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Re: RV Toilets, black and grey wars

As far as toilets go, give this one some consideration. Manual powered pump toilet so no electricity. I am going to pump from my gray water tank into my black. It has automatic sealing so no back wash into gray tank and powers the "Black water tank turtles" out of bowl and into tank.

http://www.jabsco.com/products/marine/t ... 0/iid_4268

/index.htm
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File Type: jpg Jabsco toilet.jpg (23.6 KB, 489 views)
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Old 10-19-2009, 06:09 PM   #15
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Re: RV Toilets, black and grey wars

Those toilets are an engineering marvel for sure and i like the idea alot. Unfortunately, I believe I would have to have a small flat video screen mounted directly across from s-itter that would display a youtube video showing the proper usage of the thing. People don't read anymore. Or, have a designated instructor, which may not be a bad thing relatively speaking. This is probably where the term "dry dock" comes from.

One question...and it's loaded, literally. Assuming the black tank is 4ft away how much water would it take to get the "average" load to the black tank. I am in the septic business but have no clue what the average load is. Too many variables.
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Old 10-19-2009, 07:13 PM   #16
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Re: RV Toilets, black and grey wars

Having been what my uncle refers to as a "Turd Burgler" and pumped septic tanks for a living before hanging up my hose and taking a job as a transit bus driver, I would say it is going to depend on the drop. The more drop, the less water it is going to take. I am also going to increase the size of the pipe after it goes thru the floor. If you go to the site and look, you will notice that the flushage goes out the back thru a 1 1/2 " exit pipe. After passing, I am going to increase to 2 or maybe even 2 1/2 inch pipe just to make passage better.

When you have completed the job....so to speak... you twist the handle 1/4 turn to unlock and pull up, bringing in water from the gray water tank and flushing into the bowl. instructions say it will discharge up to 9ft above the level of the bowl, so I assume (bad thing to do) that it power flushes into the black water tank.

Quoting from site:
* Powerful self-priming, double action piston pump.
* Strong swirl action for efficient flushing.

The buggar is a bit expensive, $200 with me picking up at local marine store, but I am 50 years old now and I just gotta have a quality throne.

happy pooping!!
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Old 10-19-2009, 08:27 PM   #17
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Re: RV Toilets, black and grey wars

What do you mean by "the drop" bwaaahahaa. Sorry, couldnt help myself. I have heard it all being in the business. The conversation, for some reason, invariably turns to s...

I was just curious though on the gallonage. I think i have my tanks configured. There is still the shower p-trap issue to deal with.
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Old 10-20-2009, 05:41 PM   #18
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Re: RV Toilets, black and grey wars

Dude! I'd think that was a hoax photo except for all the cables running along the wall & floor!

If the job gives you that much $h!t, just QUIT!
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Old 10-20-2009, 07:17 PM   #19
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Re: RV Toilets, black and grey wars

Tim Taylor called it the "Lazy-Bowl". But his had a fold out foot rest, but no computer stand... Must be a different model. ^.^

I did find this picture while looking for the Lazy-Bowl... Look under the chair.
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