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Old 02-20-2021, 05:09 PM   #1
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Sink installation help

This is the underside of my farmhouse sink. I want to install this so that the sink is essentially sitting on top of my countertop (rather than embedded or undermount like people normally do). Not sure how to attach it, though. There are these four holes in the bottom (one at each corner) and it looks like I could maybe get toggle bolts into them and bolt it firmly to the countertop that way. But I'm not sure if that's what these holes are meant for - I'm worried they might crack the sink or something since it's in a bus.

IMG_3264.png

Is there some sort of standard bolt mounting for these that I'm missing? My google-fu is not turning anything up. Appreciate any knowledge or suggestions.
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Old 02-20-2021, 05:36 PM   #2
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Iím not sure how these things normally go in but if itís heavy and not designed to be bolted down in a moving vehicle I would seriously consider gluing it down with construction adhesive.
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Old 02-20-2021, 06:31 PM   #3
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do you know manufacturer like kohler, american standard, pfiser or the such.
and model/style number would also help to identify and help find install instructions for specific info. like mounting and faucet hole size.
that farm sink looks to be a drop in style.
so to make it something different means you have to get creative again.
a normal bathroom sink is 34-36 inches above finish floor and a normal kitchen countertop sink is 40 inches above finished floor.
in my mind you would have to figure a comfortable farm sink heigth and adjust the counter accordingly.
or build a pocket to drop the sink into for a compromise between the to and just use plug caulking to hold it in.
if you know the make and model of the sink i can get specific instructions.
i am at a major plumbing supply house every day for my work so asking for that is easy between them and I. might hear some flack cause it wasnt bought from them but they will answer.
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Old 02-20-2021, 08:31 PM   #4
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do you know manufacturer like kohler, american standard, pfiser or the such.
and model/style number would also help to identify and help find install instructions for specific info. like mounting and faucet hole size.
that farm sink looks to be a drop in style.
so to make it something different means you have to get creative again.
a normal bathroom sink is 34-36 inches above finish floor and a normal kitchen countertop sink is 40 inches above finished floor.
in my mind you would have to figure a comfortable farm sink heigth and adjust the counter accordingly.
or build a pocket to drop the sink into for a compromise between the to and just use plug caulking to hold it in.
if you know the make and model of the sink i can get specific instructions.
i am at a major plumbing supply house every day for my work so asking for that is easy between them and I. might hear some flack cause it wasnt bought from them but they will answer.
This is very kind of you. Unfortunately I don't know what make or model of sink this is! I bought it on Craigslist and it was in the original packaging when I went to pick it up, but I stupidly went in my roadster and to fit the sink in the passenger seat I had to remove it from the box (which I left with the seller). I remember looking up the exact make and model before I bought it - I think it's a Kohler but I'm not sure.

I'll just have to improvise, I guess. It's heavy enough that it would sit down fine over four pegs or something in the corner holes, but I'm worried it would bounce up and down while driving and work loose from the drain pipe. Maybe some kind of temporary strapping could keep it in place while driving, but that would be a pain to deal with.

I do want the top of it about 40", but having it on top of a counter that was 30" high would mean the counter can be at the same level as the bottom of the windows. If I undermount it (like it's supposed to be) then my countertop would obscure a good chunk of the windows behind.

I think I'll give the toggle bolts a try.
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Old 02-21-2021, 11:57 AM   #5
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I think I'll give the toggle bolts a try.

Be careful with bolts or toggles that are sharp if that sink is ceramic or non-metallic. I put a cast iron sink in my bus because it was cool but it rocked and rolled about a bit. If it was ceramic it wouldíve broken Iím sure. Iím not sure how heavy that thing is but a broader adhesive across a large area would be a good idea if itís not metal.

My thought would be be bury it at least one inch into the counter and/or put a beefy moulding around the skirt that keeps it from wanting to move around. A Nyc bump on those 4 toggles could spell bad news, once again, assuming itís not metal.
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Old 02-21-2021, 12:42 PM   #6
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Be careful with bolts or toggles that are sharp if that sink is ceramic or non-metallic. I put a cast iron sink in my bus because it was cool but it rocked and rolled about a bit. If it was ceramic it wouldíve broken Iím sure. Iím not sure how heavy that thing is but a broader adhesive across a large area would be a good idea if itís not metal.

My thought would be be bury it at least one inch into the counter and/or put a beefy moulding around the skirt that keeps it from wanting to move around. A Nyc bump on those 4 toggles could spell bad news, once again, assuming itís not metal.
First of all, let me say that I would put Philly potholes up against anything New Yorkers imagine they have to deal with. People pay rent for some of our potholes.

I am planning to have the sink set down into the countertop an inch or two and this will keep it from moving side to side, but I'm worried about it bouncing up and down while driving. I'm planning to have it sitting on top of shock-absorbing rubber, but that presents its own problems as far as glue is concerned. But maybe it would work to glue down the rubber and then glue the sink to the rubber.

I'm thinking perhaps a piece of all-thread with a small hook or foot welded to one end, which would fit into the corner hole, with a washer and nut underneath to hold the sink down. The hook would have rubber padding, so nothing but rubber would be in contact with the ceramic.
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Old 02-21-2021, 12:44 PM   #7
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see my next post.
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Old 02-21-2021, 12:54 PM   #8
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[musigenesis,
QUOTE=I think I'll give the toggle bolts a try.[/QUOTE]

Having been a plumber I can tell you that those holes in the bottom of the porcelain or ceramic basin are casting openings and are generally not suitable for mounting stresses, particularity in a rollin' and a bouncin bus. I would say it is ok to use those holes for locator dowels but the basin needs to be fastened by other means. I would suggest marine grade permanent adhesive like https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-...3241623&rt=rud

If you go the dowel pin route make sure the pins are not tight to the ceramic as it could cause a stress fracture. I would goop up the dowels with the adhesive as well and set the basin down on them. In general ceramic and porcelain do very well with compressive stress but very poorly with tensile and bending stresses.

Best of luck
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Old 02-21-2021, 12:55 PM   #9
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Having been a plumber I can tell you that those holes in the bottom of the porcelain or ceramic basin are casting openings and are generally not suitable for mounting stresses, particularity in a rollin' and a bouncin bus. I would say it is ok to use those holes for locator dowels but the basin needs to be fastened by other means. I would suggest marine grade permanent adhesive like https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-...3241623&rt=rud
Hmm, maybe the temporary straps are the way to go here. Seatbelts for sinks!

Maybe I could build sort of wooden end caps, just enough to keep the sink locked in place.
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Old 02-21-2021, 12:59 PM   #10
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I need a lesson on how to edit a post and add random quotes!
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Old 02-21-2021, 01:05 PM   #11
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Oh one more thing!
Most, if not all, vessel sinks are mounted with the drain fitting. If you cut and thread an appropriate sized brass nipple to fit a strainer it would / should be able to hold the sink. Or maybe something like a bathtub waste and overflow strainer modified for your application?
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Old 02-21-2021, 01:15 PM   #12
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Oh one more thing!
Most, if not all, vessel sinks are mounted with the drain fitting. If you cut and thread an appropriate sized brass nipple to fit a strainer it would / should be able to hold the sink. Or maybe something like a bathtub waste and overflow strainer modified for your application?
I don't quite follow this. The sink came with a strainer/drain fitting that screws in from the top and bottom through the center hole. This at least I thought I understood and I don't need to do anything special for. You're saying that this thing could hold the sink down on its own?
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Old 02-21-2021, 01:33 PM   #13
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In short, Yes. BUT, I would not rely on the factory sink strainer to do that. It would be a custom sort of thing with heavy gauge materials like a brass bath drain fitting commonly called a "waste & overflow" I don't know what diameter your sink drain opening is and the bath fitting may be too small of a diameter. In that case I would look for a brass shower drain fitting, it would be for a 2" pipe thread. Of course these things are not the "approved use" so do so with your own judgement. Use the strainer to clamp the sink through the counter top and use the 3m glue!

https://www.plumbingsupplynow.com/2-...AaAp6MEALw_wcB
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Old 02-21-2021, 03:14 PM   #14
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A farmhouse sink sits on a base that’s shorter by the height of the sink than the base next to it. Then you have cabinet base and countertop surrounding it. That and some construction adhesive and you got it.
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Old 02-21-2021, 03:19 PM   #15
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A farmhouse sink sits on a base thatís shorter by the height of the sink than the base next to it. Then you have cabinet base and countertop surrounding it. That and some construction adhesive and you got it.
I'm trying to avoid having the countertop at the level of the top of the sink, though. Countertop will be 30" from the floor (actually 33" from the kitchen floor, which is 3" below the rest of the floor) then I want the top of the sink about 7" above that. I more or less want to install this as a freestanding basin resting on the countertop (even though that's not what it's really for).
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Old 02-21-2021, 03:22 PM   #16
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Donít know why Iím so scared of those holes but make the surface area as big as you can. Rubber grommet or something, but Iím not sure what. I wonder if thereís a flexible glue that would absorb shock... maybe a good fat bead of RTV would serve both purposes? I havenít used it in 20 years but I think itís basically the same as silicone caulk? rubbery and sticky and you could use it in one layer in lieu of the rubber, itís thick and bouncy stuff.

Driving from NY to Santa Fe a bunch of times in the bus I avoided philly but NYC, cross Bronx and a few of the other metropolitan areas along the way, Indianapolis, it think, were the worst. Half the **** in the bus was fine the whole way except in the cities. The burners for the stove never moved but the cross Bronx would toss them on the ground with ease. Glad Iím not going back there!
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Old 02-21-2021, 06:01 PM   #17
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build a base to support the sink use a good silicone or construction adhesive to mount it.
the rubber pads wont matter if you use an adhesive but could be in play with a silicone.
the drain should never be the support for the sink whether holding it up or pulling it down
the sink should be solid and in a happy place/position before ever worrying about connecting the drain.
with this idea You need to know what the bottom of your sink is with basket strainer plus p-trap depth is before you run a drain pipe up for heigth of the drain fitting to connect the sink trap to.
for the connection out of the wall.
of course you can get tailpiece extensions if You are to low but but if you are to high its a completely different concept.
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Old 02-21-2021, 08:04 PM   #18
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I think any one of these suggestions would work. It looks like we are all in agreement about the use of adhesive?

musigenesis,
Do you do welding or any fabrication work? you could make some stainless steel hook straps to hook on the lip of the sink and then screw to the counter? I know my solutions to problems are often, how shall I say it, abnormal or creative. Yes Creative that's what I'm going with.

Good luck
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Old 02-21-2021, 08:22 PM   #19
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I think any one of these suggestions would work. It looks like we are all in agreement about the use of adhesive?
Well, my bus isn't a democracy.

But what I'm thinking now is to glue the sink directly to a piece of plywood slightly bigger around than the sink, then screw the plywood to the cabinet framing with the rubber in between the plywood and the framing. The butcher block countertop would be fit around the base of the sink without being attached to it directly. The rubber should absorb most of the vibration and shock from the driving, lessening the strain on the sink/plywood adhesive.
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Old 02-21-2021, 08:25 PM   #20
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Do you do welding or any fabrication work?
Well, I think I do! But I also well understand the capacity of the human mind to mislead itself as to what it's capable of.

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you could make some stainless steel hook straps to hook on the lip of the sink and then screw to the counter?
I was actually thinking something along these lines, like hooks with tensionable wires attached to the countertop. It would certainly be interesting-looking.

I'm definitely not capable of SS welding, though.
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