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Old 03-04-2020, 09:10 PM   #21
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I'm thinking about a "urinal" funnel and tube for isolated locations, boondocking, pulled over on the side of the road. Over a storm drain LoL. It should lighten the load on the piss jug in the composting head. Unless I can come up with a way to treat it or whatever in the grey water tank.

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Old 04-26-2020, 09:08 AM   #22
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There is a HUGE difference between taking a leak in the woods while you're hiking, and dumping a couple of gallons of piss, or even gray water, on the ground. We can't be doing that and not expect repercussions down the road. That kind of stuff is going to label us all sleazy scumbags.


Not syaing this is what anyone here is doing, but I know there have been cases of people doing that.



I see two options:
1. Divert the urine to manageable jugs that can be carried to a toilet and dumped.
2. Have a tank for this stuff, with a proper hose, and dispose of it in a dump station.



I boondocked for almost a year in the Escondido California area, in a small trailer pulled behind my FJC. Twice I was unable to find a dump station and my black tank filled up. I had to use public restrooms for a couple of days, pee in a bottle, and-as disgusting as it was-use a bucket a couple of times in an emergency. It sucked, but I wasn't about to dump my black tank anywhere-even "in the woods". It just isn't right and it is downright criminal in my opinion.
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Old 04-26-2020, 09:39 AM   #23
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There is a HUGE difference between taking a leak in the woods while you're hiking, and dumping a couple of gallons of piss, or even gray water, on the ground. We can't be doing that and not expect repercussions down the road. That kind of stuff is going to label us all sleazy scumbags.


Not syaing this is what anyone here is doing, but I know there have been cases of people doing that.



I see two options:
1. Divert the urine to manageable jugs that can be carried to a toilet and dumped.
2. Have a tank for this stuff, with a proper hose, and dispose of it in a dump station.



I boondocked for almost a year in the Escondido California area, in a small trailer pulled behind my FJC. Twice I was unable to find a dump station and my black tank filled up. I had to use public restrooms for a couple of days, pee in a bottle, and-as disgusting as it was-use a bucket a couple of times in an emergency. It sucked, but I wasn't about to dump my black tank anywhere-even "in the woods". It just isn't right and it is downright criminal in my opinion.

I wouldn't dump my 2 gallon jug of piss on the ground in a campground or if there's a vault toilet nearby, but that's almost never the case. We're currently in a meadow on BLM land, surrounded by cattle, about 25 miles from the nearest town. I have no reservations about dumping it in the desert scrub....the closest camper is 3 miles away.
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Old 04-26-2020, 12:33 PM   #24
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Most RV parks have dump sites for emptying black and grey tanks. Some truck stops have them too. I think even some state parks have such facilities. However, there may come a time where your tanks are full and you're not near a rest area, or dump site.

My take on it from my experience as an over-the-road trucker...

As someone else has mentioned here, there is a huge difference between dumping a couple gallons of urine on a sidewalk and taking a leak in the woods. But desperate times call for desperate measures. I don't think there's a traveler in history who hasn't had to use a bottle or jug at some point. I'd be lying if I said I'd never had to stop on the shoulder and use an empty bottle because it was broad daylight and no suitable services were near enough. But it didn't ride along with me for long, and I made sure to dispose of it as discreetly as possible. No one wants to see that (or smell it)... Keep this in mind...


Really not much difference. Don't be this guy.

However... If you absolutely must use a bottle or jug of some sort because there is no safe place to pull over or something, yes, urine will create a strong smell after awhile. One trick another driver mentioned was to pour a little Pine-Sol in to neutralize it, though every carrier expressly forbid such arrangements. But there are always a handful that do it anyway.

Do not, under any circumstances, just wontonly empty urine on pavement, concrete or anything similar. The smell will never go away, because it bakes in with the heat. It took awhile for me to figure out why some truck stop parking lots smelled that way. Point blank, lazy people were to blame.

I honestly wouldn't keep such an arrangement riding with me for very long or let it accumulate much. But if circumstances necessitate it, I would dump it discretely, on grass, in a remote area out of eyesight and nasal range, and try not to concentrate it in one small spot.

No, I was not one of the idiots you might see letting it fly out the door in plain view (and yes, I saw a moron doing this at 1 am in the middle of the truck stop parking lot, 100 feet from a restroom). I was also not one of the jackasses you see leaving a gallon jug of urine on the fuel island or dumping it in the middle of a parking lot. However, I ran team with some who did, and I called them out for it.

I really hope I am not reinforcing the typical stigma and image most have of truck drivers, because we are not all like that, but bad apples ruin it for everyone.

But I would not do any of the following I have seen others do (not just truckers, some RVers do this too):

Leave a jug full just sitting around for someone to find and properly dispose of. This is one reason WalMarts are starting to crack down on overnight parking.

Throw a container that still contains urine into a trash disposal. Truck stop trash collectors secretly want to badly beat those who do this. I saw one driver do this once, then walk inside to pay for their fuel. The trash collector saw them do it, and promptly fished the jug out of the trash can with a stick, then set it on the catwalk behind the truck cab.

I don't know how long it stayed there, but I'm sure it eventually was either discovered or exploded all over the front of the trailer and the truck tires. The reason I said nothing was that this idiot didn't bother to pull forward so I could start fueling (I was the next one in line), and I think the trash collector handled it rather well.

Don't throw it out along the highway. A good alternative would be to empty it on the shoulder of an on-ramp or something.

I guess what I'm saying is, it's not kosher, but forgivable in dire circumstances, and if you must, be respectful in disposing of it. Empty it somewhere it's not going to create a problem, then properly dispose of what was used to hold it.
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Old 04-26-2020, 12:46 PM   #25
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Leave a jug full just sitting around for someone to find and properly dispose of. This is one reason WalMarts are starting to crack down on overnight parking.


Throw the jug out along the highway. A good alternative would be to empty it on the shoulder of an on-ramp or something.

Ugh, that's the worst. I see these trucker bombs on the shoulder of the highway all the time. I just don't understand why not just empty it on the shoulder or in the grass like you said, then dispose of the empty bottle once you get to a truck stop? It's nasty enough to look at, I'd hate to be a DOT worker that has to pick those things up and dispose of them. Emptying a jug of pee soak into the ground in a remote area is, in my mind, a far different thing than leaving a Gatorade bottle of pee to ferment in the sun on the hot pavement.
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Old 04-26-2020, 12:54 PM   #26
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Ugh, that's the worst. I see these trucker bombs on the shoulder of the highway all the time. I just don't understand why not just empty it on the shoulder or in the grass like you said, then dispose of the empty bottle once you get to a truck stop? It's nasty enough to look at, I'd hate to be a DOT worker that has to pick those things up and dispose of them. Emptying a jug of pee soak into the ground in a remote area is, in my mind, a far different thing than leaving a Gatorade bottle of pee to ferment in the sun on the hot pavement.
Because some people are just lazy, sorry-a-- wastes of space and don't care about anyone but themselves. Exactly why I said nothing when that trash collector fished that one driver's jug out of the trash can and set it on his catwalk. I know it stayed if they drove like they had any sense. You'd be surprised what can stay in place at 65 mph.

I once left a small hammer used for persuading stuck slider pins on the Mansfield bumper and the damned thing was still there when I stopped an hour later for a mid-trip inspection. I thought I'd put it back in the truck, but I hadn't. I also once picked up a sealed load in Ohio I was under the impression was already secured, when it was not. Drove it all the way from Trenton OH to Philly PA and it didn't budge.
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Old 08-24-2020, 01:45 AM   #27
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Grey water smells like hell after a few days as is, but you should have several p-traps or s-traps in your drain system for gray water system, adding urine to it want make a hill of beans . and when i get home and clean everything up for the next trip, i always pour a little bleach down all of the sink drains just for good measure.
You dump both gray and black tanks into the same dump station
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Old 08-24-2020, 08:08 AM   #28
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To the OP: There has been some very good advise offered in this thread. Said a bit differently - you can certainly do what you have asked. Please dump this tank into appropriate dump sites only (either public dump site, septic system cleanup, etc.).

A bit of background... I have had two motorhomes with black and grey tanks. I absolutely refuse to dump those tanks anywhere but an appropriate dump site so having two tanks makes very little sense. So, I built my coach with one very large tank - everything goes into that tank (kitchen, bathroom, shower, and toilet). Think about how a typical house plumbing system works - everything is plumbed to one pipe going out of the house. All of the drains use a p-trap.

To the those advising people NOT to dump anything anywhere but into a dump site: THANK YOU!!!! Our "right" to use publicly owned land is under extreme pressure right now and it is only getting worse. I know many folks don't care about next year, never mind the next generation - please don't ruin it for everyone. I know... a gallon of pee is nothing... a broken bottle is nothing... a runaway plastic sack is nothing... As someone who spends a lot of time in pretty remote locations, I can assure you that these things add up. Based on the things I've seen, I don't blame the authorities for wanting to shut down access. We can make a difference and it starts with each of us thinking about the collective impact and doing the right thing.
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Old 08-24-2020, 10:30 AM   #29
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JD, you bring up an interesting point about having only one waste tank. It does make good sense. I wonder if the two tank system isn't a hold over from back in the day when RV's were smaller and space for a one huge holding tank just wasn't available. I suspect also that 50 years ago no one much thought about gray water having a negative impact and being able to dump the gray tank extended the "camp" time considerably. Perhaps the outdoor showers aren't so bad but I really don't like stepping out of my bus and into someone else's soap residue.
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Old 08-24-2020, 10:43 AM   #30
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To the OP: There has been some very good advise offered in this thread. Said a bit differently - you can certainly do what you have asked. Please dump this tank into appropriate dump sites only (either public dump site, septic system cleanup, etc.).

A bit of background... I have had two motorhomes with black and grey tanks. I absolutely refuse to dump those tanks anywhere but an appropriate dump site so having two tanks makes very little sense. So, I built my coach with one very large tank - everything goes into that tank (kitchen, bathroom, shower, and toilet). Think about how a typical house plumbing system works - everything is plumbed to one pipe going out of the house. All of the drains use a p-trap.

To the those advising people NOT to dump anything anywhere but into a dump site: THANK YOU!!!! Our "right" to use publicly owned land is under extreme pressure right now and it is only getting worse. I know many folks don't care about next year, never mind the next generation - please don't ruin it for everyone. I know... a gallon of pee is nothing... a broken bottle is nothing... a runaway plastic sack is nothing... As someone who spends a lot of time in pretty remote locations, I can assure you that these things add up. Based on the things I've seen, I don't blame the authorities for wanting to shut down access. We can make a difference and it starts with each of us thinking about the collective impact and doing the right thing.
I don't understand this "issue".

I thought grey water was shower water and toilet water was black water, which means urine is black water.

To me, the reason for a separate grey water tank was so that the water can be reused to flush toilets, wash cars, or water trees/gardens, with the end result of conserving water use ( in a RV this also means more total water capability within less space and less weight and you can fit 2 smaller tanks where you can't fit 1 larger tank of the same total size).


Only a me, me idiot would dump black water/urine or trash where its not supposed to be. They do have to stop and get gas anyway, and they can dispose of the jugs/urine there.

But, then again, in the real world, there are people who eat scat and/or drink urine and they may see it differently.
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Old 08-24-2020, 10:47 AM   #31
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Hi Jack, I did some research on it back when I was doing the design - I couldn't find much. The best I could come up with is what you've said - many years ago there were more possibilities for dumping the grey than the black. When I attempted to determine why two tanks are still the norm, the typical answer was 'that's they way we do it.' The only response that was at least partially useful was that this approach allows trailer owners to dump their grey tank into a portable and haul it to the dump site.

For those that are not familiar... the grey tank fills up the quickest due to showers. Many of the folks with trailers prefer to disconnect their tow vehicle (level, etc.) but they have small tanks. So, hauling the trailer to the dump site once a week is a bit of a nuisance. I've seen many of these folks empty their grey tank into a portable and haul that over to the dump site in lieu of hauling the entire trailer over.

I suspect space is the real reason that this is still the norm (easier to install two smaller tanks than one large tank).
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Old 08-24-2020, 11:04 AM   #32
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I thought grey water was shower water and toilet water was black water, which means urine is black water.

To me, the reason for a separate grey water tank was so that the water can be reused to flush toilets, wash cars, or water trees/gardens, with the end result of conserving water use ( in a RV this also means more total water capability within less space and less weight and you can fit 2 smaller tanks where you can't fit 1 larger tank of the same total size).
That is part of the story. The other part is that kitchen sink water is NOT grey water (I believe that is the generally accepted definition but I'm aware that there is some inconsistency, I've been wrong before). In every RV that I've ever seen, the kitchen sink drains into the grey tank. So, the grey tank does not contain only grey water.

If you've not tried this experiment yet, it is worth doing... Next time you are dumping your RV grey tank after a couple weeks of use, pour some of it into your hand and take a nice big whiff. In my experience, you will find this water is very disgusting. Like others have reported, I have parked in some really nice boondocking spots where grey water has been dumped - the stench is unbearable (IMO).

That said, I do agree with the concept of re-using/re-cycling grey water. Earthships seems to have perfected this approach (as well as composting toilets - since they have a place to let it actually compost).

Interesting reading....
https://www.boondockersbible.com/kno...on-the-ground/
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Old 08-24-2020, 12:03 PM   #33
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If you've not tried this experiment yet, it is worth doing... Next time you are dumping your RV grey tank after a couple weeks of use, pour some of it into your hand and take a nice big whiff. In my experience, you will find this water is very disgusting.
Yes it is disgusting. And our "grey" tank was basically sink water _only_. No urine. In my thread I go over how the tanks were venting into the cabin in transit, and how I fixed it. It was freaking gag-inducing.

I'd recommend people put check valves in their plumbing _just in case_ the water gets moving around fast enough in transit to back up into a sink or shower pan, install some kind of flush system / hose inlet, and treat your tanks regularly for smell.

Oh and just plan ahead... try not to run around with tanks full of all colors of of confetti and who-knows-what that smells like the abyss.
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Old 08-24-2020, 12:52 PM   #34
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regulations are great, i am sure that parking a dirty RV in a national park and leaving in in the rain , producing plenty gray water will soon be an offense if a ranger sees it happening..
Just sarcasm here but.. I can tell .. whatever rule I will be breaking..that i am not going to collect my pea or my dogs poop when i am taking a hike in remote area's.

Nowadays we live on a very large scale with a lot of waste, water, plastic bags,jugs ,card board, the list goes on, and we are in a lot of hurry and want it now.

I am not feeling bad about dispersing 1 gallon of shower water on the ground, nor about taking a pea in the wild.. although illegal I am sure ..Law has to have some logic to it.
That is very different from dumping 40 gallons of festering gray water at one spot. The problem with these laws are that both situations are treated the same and there is no coherent overall pollution plan.


Hypocracy all over..No to a gallon of gray water but Ok to take an old air polluting old diesel leaking out of every gasket and nobody even flinches.. Actually on this forum the old mechanical worn out stinkers, not to mention two strokes are preferred, all in the name of ease of maintenance.



I can see Jacks issue not wanting to step in someones sodd and I sure would think it inappropriate to dump 20 gallon gray at the moment you are leaving your site and leave it for the next person to "enjoy" but if the same people would have taken the time to take their gray and walk 100yards from their bon docking site and spread it for 10 days in 2 gallon increments on 10 different location then I would have a hard time believing that I harmed the environment a little or any.



It is more how people want to care about what they are doing or more likely not want to care about what they are doing.


dilution is the solution to pollution, not that i really believe that is true for a oil, smoking bus leaking old bus but it sure is true for a little bit of pea.


end of rant.


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Old 08-24-2020, 02:21 PM   #35
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I dont have mucbh experience with tanks and grey / black water.. however just the SOAP ITSELF turns nasty.. anyone have a front load washing machine at home and take out that plastic tray where the soap and downy liquids go? and see how nasty and smelly supposedly clean products are! let alone in standard non-body water soaking into the ground ..


ive also thought doesnt having a single tank help0 with flushing the solids from the toilet out? I always hear stories of the sewage line being clogged up because the poo mess was too thick.. seems if you mix black and grey then you have some force behind things when you go to the dumper..
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Old 08-24-2020, 02:50 PM   #36
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[/I]SNIP...[/B]
I can see Jacks issue not wanting to step in someones sodd and I sure would think it inappropriate to dump 20 gallon gray at the moment you are leaving your site and leave it for the next person to "enjoy" but if the same people would have taken the time to take their gray and walk 100yards from their bon docking site and spread it for 10 days in 2 gallon increments on 10 different location then I would have a hard time believing that I harmed the environment a little or any.



It is more how people want to care about what they are doing or more likely not want to care about what they are doing.


dilution is the solution to pollution, not that i really believe that is true for a oil, smoking bus leaking old bus but it sure is true for a little bit of pea.


end of rant.


Johan
This line of reasoning might have worked in the 1970's but the reality of today is higher population levels.

The response to "dilution is the solution to pollution" is simple THE SPONGE IS FULL

Please do some research for yourself -- a good start would be any "leave no trace" website about how to conduct yourself in our wild places.
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Old 08-24-2020, 03:07 PM   #37
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ive also thought doesnt having a single tank help0 with flushing the solids from the toilet out? I always hear stories of the sewage line being clogged up because the poo mess was too thick.. seems if you mix black and grey then you have some force behind things when you go to the dumper..
I think this is actually a good argument for a flush system- one where you can pump water directly into the black tank as you are emptying it.


I wouldn't want a single combined tank, personally. Black water has very few legitimate avenues to deal with it. Grey water you have more options, and I believe it accumulates faster.
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Old 08-24-2020, 04:23 PM   #38
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David, I agree completely with you. In the 1970 we went camping with a 2.5 gallon water tank in a car with 45 HP. On a camp ground you were supposed to dig a hole 1 spade deep to dump your gray water.


Now some people go to a campground and they can not " live and camp " without a full hook up.

More people is one thing , the amount of needs is another.


We have a 40 gallon water tank in Dory. That lasts us normally with 4 people and a dog for 10 days. It is all gray water from washing dishes and showering. Counts out to 4 gallon a day.. I think mentally I can handle to break the law with that amount of "pollution when boon docking.



Are you trying to tell me that on a 10 mile hike in the wild you bring your pea back in a bottle? . You are a more disciplined man then me.


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Old 08-24-2020, 04:52 PM   #39
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In a woods I think it’s different than at a campground. If I go hike in the woods the chances of me wienering it out in the same spot as a bunch of others is quite slim. Even along an established trail..

But at a campground there are usually marked spots where people may occupy the same similar space day after day.. seems it’s quite different to dump water in that scenerio vs a 10 mile walk in the wilderness ..
not to mention people these days seem to plastic everything. If you were pooping in a hole and burying that it’s one thing but everywhere you go it’s those blasted plastic wal mart bags .. I see em along bike trails, small towns, big towns , everywhere.. no idea what’s in most of them but judging by flies I can only guess what it might be
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Old 08-24-2020, 04:54 PM   #40
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David, I agree completely with you. In the 1970 we went camping with a 2.5 gallon water tank in a car with 45 HP. On a camp ground you were supposed to dig a hole 1 spade deep to dump your gray water.


Now some people go to a campground and they can not " live and camp " without a full hook up.

More people is one thing , the amount of needs is another.


We have a 40 gallon water tank in Dory. That lasts us normally with 4 people and a dog for 10 days. It is all gray water from washing dishes and showering. Counts out to 4 gallon a day.. I think mentally I can handle to break the law with that amount of "pollution when boon docking.



Are you trying to tell me that on a 10 mile hike in the wild you bring your pea back in a bottle? . You are a more disciplined man then me.


Johan
The environment/use patterns of different places requires different approaches --

The only time I pack out my pee is if/when I'm spelunking (duct tape burrito; not 'cause it's gross; 'cause it's the right thing to do)
EDIT: https://digital.lib.usf.edu//content...84-269-270.pdf
I haven't been spelunking in a long time...
If I'm hiking, I pee off the trail, if my dog poops on the trail I pack it out, same as mine, and since I keep my dog on a leash that pretty much means I'm packing his poop out too... Price I pay to enjoy his company on trail.

if you're on a 10 mile hike and you have 2 gallons of gray water to disperse -- you're an animal! I don't have that kinda strength anymore... The last time I did a 4 day 3 night in OPNP each of us started out carrying 3 gallons of water in addition to our food & gear. I remember being bent over double with the load and that was in '94! I don't think I could enjoy it now... even back then we packed out our toilet paper or used rocks!

The popular USFS/BLM dispersed camping sites in CO & WY have had people on 'em almost every single day this summer.
Your two gallons today, somebody else's two gallons tomorrow for 90 straight days is more than the area was meant for -- the food waste in your dish water will attract rodents and bears... the soaps and oils WILL contaminate the soils and local ground water feeds -- it's just math and science; you can choose to believe, you can choose to not care, but this is why open lands get closed to dispersed camping -- the land needs time to heal from our abuse...
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David

The Murder Bus
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