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Old 06-01-2017, 01:43 PM   #21
Bus Geek
 
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,712
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin97396 View Post
That leads me to my next question. Who dumps a working ACs after only one year?
I got my window unit for free. Even came with a remote. Co-worker upgraded his and gave me the old one. During the divorce (MD requires a yr separation) my apartment didn't have central air so it was great having it. Back in the house now (sans ex) but still have the unit. Oughta work great for the bus. If it isn't big enough, I'll go the Good Will route and buy another. Dual zone.

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Old 06-01-2017, 01:50 PM   #22
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 14,921
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin97396 View Post
Considering how cheaply you can buy window AC units at the end of the summer this makes a lot of sense. I find large AC units at goodwill each fall that appear to have only been used for one year.

That leads me to my next question. Who dumps a working ACs after only one year?

Even the skirt on this bus will easily hide an AC, and they're so easily replaceable. I'm trying to keep the outside of this bus smooth so no window AC, solar panels or other items that could get wiped out in the brush.
alot of people dump AC units after a year.. ive done it myself... I moved into an apartment in 2003.. it had central air... the central air sucked.. it would run 24/7. and my bedroom was still 75 at night.. so I put a window A/C in to supplement the central air.. then I built a brand new house tht I moved into september of 04.. sold the window A/C as I didnt need it..

college exchange students used to do it here too.. the old dorms didnt have A/C. students came over for one year, buy an A/C, use it, sell it and fly home.. in the NE and NW theres still a lot of dorms or apartments without A/C (in 2017 believe it or not).. here in Ohio, old dorms are being updated and every new place built apartment-wise is A/C, so window A/C is a hard sell here now.. they are CHEAP when people do unload them..

-Christopher
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Old 06-01-2017, 01:55 PM   #23
Bus Geek
 
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,712
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
Whether it is a window unit or a rooftop "RV" unit, it will have to run on 110v. That means either plugged into shore power, hooked direct to a generator...or batteries and an inverter. With a large enough alternator and the right electronics, some rigs can run a 110 appliances off the bus engine. EMT & Fire units do it all the time.

I'll leave any solar discussions to someone else.
How many BTUs does a 40ft bus need? There has to be a formula for X ft^3 = Y BTUs but how much does the metal skin and lower R value of a bus vs. a house change that formula?

Found this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by The internet
Area To Be Cooled
(square feet)
Capacity Needed
100 up to 150 5,000 BTUs
150 up to 250 6,000 BTUs
250 up to 300 7,000 BTUs
300 up to 350 8,000 BTUs
350 up to 400 9,000 BTUs
400 up to 450 10,000 BTUs
450 up to 550 12,000 BTUs
550 up to 700 14,000 BTUs
700 up to 1,000 18,000 BTUs
1,000 up to 1,200 21,000 BTUs
1,200 up to 1,400 23,000 BTUs
1,400 up to 1,500 24,000 BTUs
1,500 up to 2,000 30,000 BTUs
2,000 up to 2,500 34,000 BTUs
To determine the most accurate BTU estimate, you should also consider these factors:
  • Ceiling Height
    The above estimates assume you have traditional 8-foot ceilings. If your ceilings measure higher than 8 feet, you’ll want to increase your BTU level.
  • Sunlight
    If your room or space is sunny during the day, increase your BTUs by 10 percent.
  • Shade
    If your room is shaded for most of the day, decrease your BTUs by 10 percent.
  • Number of Occupants
    If more than 2 people will occupy your room or space regularly, you should add an additional 600 BTUs of cooling power for each person.
  • Kitchen:
    If you are installing your window AC in a kitchen, increase the BTU level by 4,000.
https://learn.compactappliance.com/s...r-conditioner/
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Old 06-01-2017, 02:26 PM   #24
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 14,921
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
there is a LOT of factors involved in calculatuing A/C need for any space.. trust me, i did it for a living..

some of the factors that most dont think of:

1. Max temperature drop you want to achieve - ie are you looking to gain -20 from outdoor, -30, etc.. how hot is it outside and how cool do you want it inside.

2. Dewpoint Load - how much moisture do you need to remove.. indoor humidity levels are affected by leaks, cooking, showers, outside humifity, nearby bodies of water, etc.

3. how quick do you need to cool it - is your A/C on all the time maintaining a constant climate? or do you need to cool it quickly after your bus has baked all day.

4. sunload - (mentioned in your post).. how many windows, how much sun, how strong is the sun? filtered, lots of cloudy days, lots of full sun, sun angle in times of cooling.. (midday,night,morning).

5. insulation - is your bus bone stock like mine? or is it super insulated like Robin;s

6. Lifestyle - run the A/C with windows open? like to shut it off and open up until it gets too hot then want to cool quickly? or do you live in an A/C bubble where you just run it all the time never touching the thermostat..

all those factors affect sizing..

undersize your A/C and it runs all the time and you arent comfy.. oversize your A/C, and it cycles all; the time wasting energy and shortening its life.. as well as failing at moisture extraction..

one of the reason Mini SPlits are so popular is they are adaptive.. they vary their output capacity. in such a way that they can be oversized and still remove moisture, not cycle, yet can ramp up when needed..

I based the A/C in my 1400 sq ft house off of 3 mini-splits.. they are ducted into my modulating zone dampers and variable speed central blower..

I have the ability to push 5000 BTU all the way up to 51,000 BTU of A/C.. why on earth would i need 51k BTU in a 1400 sq ft house? I like to open my windows up all day until it gets really hot.. i love fresh air.. hate being in A/C bubble.. but once the house is like 85-88 im Over it.. so then I want to close the windows and cool it quick.. so my system goes to work in quick fashion.. knocking a quick 10 degrees off the inside temp.. to 78-80. andthen it goes to work on the humidity.. lowering the blower speed and making colder air which east out the moisture.... then once it reaches target temp and humidity.. the units never shut off.. they run very slowly to maintain the climate.. if one overshoots and is at its minimum, that one in said zone will cancel,

one or more mini splits in a bus will come somewhat close.. clunky window or rooftop units will either run all the time or cycle on and off leaving cool clammy conditions.. or you'll have to turn only one on at a time, etc to help manually maintain your climate..

if you arent picky at all then window units or rooftop air is a cheaper and easier way to go ..

for driving on the road you need lots of BTU's to overcome basically a 70 MPH windstorm and engine heat that you are drivi9ng through.. (lots of air loss, heat infiltration etc).. for that I recommend some type of dashboard A/C..

-Christopher
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Old 06-02-2017, 06:21 AM   #25
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Johnston County, NC
Posts: 19
Year: 1990
Chassis: Blue Bird tc/2000
Engine: Cummins 5.9 L L6 diesel
Rated Cap: 48 (12 windows)
How do you suggest installing a split system in a bus? Would you put the compressor under the floor? Would I need a professional installer?
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Old 06-02-2017, 06:23 AM   #26
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Location: Columbus Ohio
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Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bell View Post
How do you suggest installing a split system in a bus? Would you put the compressor under the floor? Would I need a professional installer?
look for a build by somehwereinusa. he has 2 mini's mounted in his bus.. and has been runningthem succesfully for a couple years.. his units are under the floor.
-Christopher
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Old 06-11-2017, 08:07 PM   #27
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Join Date: May 2017
Location: Gulfport, MS
Posts: 120
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Bluebird All American Re
Engine: Cat 3126
I have been reading a lot of info on different builds and I believe the mini split system is the way to go. My questions about this system are, how do they hold up with the rigors of road vibrations? Can they be in use while driving? Is there anything special to mounting or connecting in a bus application such as suspended on a spring type cradle on or using rubber ac lines to connect to copper lines so the unit isn't completely hard lined and has some flex.
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Old 06-11-2017, 08:21 PM   #28
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,020
Year: 1990
Coachwork: integral
Chassis: Crown Supercoach II (rear engine)
Engine: Detroit 6V92TAC, DDEC 2, Jake brake, Allison HT740
Rated Cap: 37,400 lbs GVWR
Quote:
Originally Posted by bridg73988 View Post
I have been reading a lot of info on different builds and I believe the mini split system is the way to go. My questions about this system are, how do they hold up with the rigors of road vibrations? Can they be in use while driving? Is there anything special to mounting or connecting in a bus application such as suspended on a spring type cradle on or using rubber ac lines to connect to copper lines so the unit isn't completely hard lined and has some flex.
I'm also curious about those same questions. My biggest potential problem is that I now have no more space to mount the condenser unit vertically under the floor, and if it were at a 45-degree angle or even horizontal the compressor would then be starved of oil. Folk here say that there's lots of thin copper tubes inside that would need to be surgically altered in order to relocate the compressor to a different angle, but that would be much easier said than done. I think I'll need professional advice on this one! Negating the warranty if I chop and change the guts of it doesn't concern me, but keeping it reliable in a moving and vibrating environment is my major challenge. I don't even have space on the roof for a typical RV A/C, so for me it's minisplit or nothing. A 12K with soft-start and heat pump would be perfect for the front of my bus.

John
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Old 07-04-2017, 03:08 PM   #29
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I plan to undermount my window AC units on my build. Bus should be back in my driveway this week and I'll start figuring it out.

Seems easy enough. Would be nice to have floor AC and at a decent price and efficiency to boot. Also takes up less space.
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Old 07-04-2017, 03:25 PM   #30
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,020
Year: 1990
Coachwork: integral
Chassis: Crown Supercoach II (rear engine)
Engine: Detroit 6V92TAC, DDEC 2, Jake brake, Allison HT740
Rated Cap: 37,400 lbs GVWR
Quote:
Originally Posted by shepd View Post
I plan to undermount my window AC units on my build. Bus should be back in my driveway this week and I'll start figuring it out.

Seems easy enough. Would be nice to have floor AC and at a decent price and efficiency to boot. Also takes up less space.
Just bear in mind that cold air sinks. Blowing it out at floor level is not as effective as letting it sink down from the roof - you could end up with a cold floor and a hot ceiling! It would be better to duct the cold air upwards, but then you need to check if the window A/C unit has sufficient airflow, otherwise you may need a booster fan.

John
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Old 07-04-2017, 04:12 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceni John View Post
Just bear in mind that cold air sinks. Blowing it out at floor level is not as effective as letting it sink down from the roof - you could end up with a cold floor and a hot ceiling! It would be better to duct the cold air upwards, but then you need to check if the window A/C unit has sufficient airflow, otherwise you may need a booster fan.

John
I considered that and you're right, but I barely have enough room in my design already (Single Wheel Shorty)... I don't think I can lend more space to ductwork. At least I can open the air vent in the ceiling and let some heat out while still successfully air conditioning the space.
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Old 07-11-2017, 12:47 PM   #32
Almost There
 
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Decatur, Illinois
Posts: 69
Year: 1992
Rated Cap: 35 kids
We went with a portable 12000 BTU A/C that I added a permanent vent thru the side of the bus instead of the window vent that comes with the unit. It easily cools the entire bus since its only 8x15' to cool. We also added a hole and drain tube instead of the drain tray that it comes with. No problem so far plus it doesn't block any windows, cant be pulled out or fall out of a window and doesn't look tacky sticking out of a window...we placed it under out dining room table/art easel so it doesn't take up to much space...
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Old 07-22-2020, 03:16 PM   #33
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Wake Forest NC
Posts: 455
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Vista 3600
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 24000 lbs
I ended up with a Furion 14.5 Dual fan Roofshaker for when we are parked



it does a good job

For driving I plan to cobb in an engine driven Sanden Compressor and design an orifice tube system like on Fords
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Old 07-22-2020, 07:14 PM   #34
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 14,921
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Love the dual fan / dual motor rooftop units.. they work much better than the single fan units..



dont mess with orifice tube stuff, use a TxV evaporator.. putting a single compressor on a T444E is easy to do, **DONT** mount a condensor in front of your split radiator.. you dont need anymore heat up front. . use a 2 fan underbody unit..



I gutted my driver heater of nost of its parts.. installed a dedicated Jegs heater as my left Windshield defroster and had plenty of room to mount a heat / cool unit which I then ducted for dash A/C and driver heat.. its about 20,000 BTU.. which is enough toi blow cold air on me while driving and help to deal with the engine heat.. (insulating the doghouse area was paramount to me having cool feet up front)..

-Christopher
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