Be Careful with those Mr Buddy heaters!

[john61ct]

Wow, just the name would make you extra cautious huh? 8-D

[banman]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Wow, just the name would make you extra cautious huh? 8-D

That took me a moment...
Yeah, imagine the three stacks of straw bales all around the perimeter to keep the winds from blowing under it...



Yup, the inside of a bus is HUGE compared to this little thing...

[gs1949]

I have no personal interest whatsoever in having any non-vented propane heaters in my bus, so I have not been following this thread. But I just read the entire thread, and saw something I feel a need to respond to.

Someone pointed out that CO is heavier than air, so it should sink to the floor. But it doesn't always work this way in the real world. About 30 years ago there was a very tragic incident in the town I was living in at the time that very clearly demonstrated that when the CO is contained in hot exhaust gases it rises above the cooler room air.

There was a guy who had lost his job due to the forest industry downsizing that was so rampant at the time and then decided to kill himself. He was living in a basement suite and backed his truck up next to his bedroom window, ran a hose inside, then went to bed and successfully gassed himself.

The family that was living upstairs had 2 small children sleeping in the room above the downstair's tenant's bedroom. Both children were dead when their parents checked upon them. Sufficient CO to kill them had entered their room somehow before their parents were aware of any problem.

The main point I think people should take out of this narrative is that CO in exhaust gasses will at first rise above the cooler room air, and then very effectively mix with the room air as the exhaust gases cool. Sleeping up higher, closer to the ceiling will not make the room air any safer to breathe.


@musigenesis, your figure for diesel stoves seems high. What it will cost is variable. Dickinson Marine is a Canadian company, but Fisheries Supply is in Seattle and these prices are in US dollars. The first link is just a small heater. There's room for one pot on top, and it's built pretty close to the floor. So it is not a proper cookstove.

But I want a proper cookstove, with an oven, so the second link is to Dickinson Marine's lowest priced diesel cookstove.

I intend to install a Bering Diesel Cookstove in my bus so I can carry out my plan to have no propane installed in my bus, and therefore no unvented propane burners. This diesel cookstove on low should provide enough heat for any weather I will spend much time in.

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/dick...-diesel-heater

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/dick...tove-with-oven

[john61ct]

Yes, although technically heavier, like hydrogen from FLA batteries, when mixed in normally circulating air, density is so close it doesn't stratify much.

With both constant but decently controlled ventilation is the key.

Fuel leak detectors are good to have too, but farts can set them off

[gs1949]

Hydrogen rises, but I think it mixes so easily that it would be mixed before it got to the ceiling. The level of H in a space only needs to be one precent before it becomes explosive, so how close the H concentration in the air is to one percent, is what needs to be paid attention to. I don't think humans can smell it at that concentration, can they? Maybe they can't smell it at all. Certainly need lots of ventilation if batteries had to be inside. I've been thinking a lot about that too.

[john61ct]

FLA batts producing any significant H stink from the sulpher

[gs1949]

Well, it's been a while, but as I remember it, I was smelling hydrogen sulfate, not hydrogen. Maybe I have this wrong, but I don't think hydrogen in it's explosive state or concentration has any odor at all to humans, That's what I was trying to say.

[ACamper]

One of the big reasons why propane heaters are so popular is because they burn clean. Diesel and kerosene are not as clean, I am sure salesmen and manufactures have spun specs that claim they are but all the diesel and kerosene heaters I have been around stunk and gave me headaches real quick.

I have used propane heaters in vans and campers before, I would only use them to get out of bed and get dressed on or to take the chill of for 10mins or so. I use one in my garage to work on things or smoke a cigar I always crack a door while it is going.

[john61ct]

The diesel and gasoline "parking heaters" like Webasto and Espar are a far cry from the old school units.

Thermostatic control, remote start via SMS, adjust for altitude

do not even need to burn anywhere near the living space, and if they do all the smell is contained and exhausted outside.

Only comparable propane fired unit I know of is Propex HS2211.

[gs1949]

I am leery of cheap heaters irregardless of what fuel they burn. I've spent several winters in 2 different small cabins in British Cloumbia that only had oil cookstoves for heating and cooking. I never had any problems with fumes, and I am very sensitive to exhaust fumes.

In 1958 my family drove from western Oregon to Lake Tahoe area to spend Christmas with Mom's oldest brother. We had to drive over a very high pass, Donner Pass maybe I think. My Dad had borrowed some chains from another uncle, but Dad had never put on chains and they ended up very loose amd clanged against the the exhaust system until something broke.

We drove the rest of the way with the widows partly open. My younger brothers and I were huddled together in the back seat shivering. We were starting to get a little groggy in spite of the shivering, but Mom kept poking us to make sure none of us fell asleep.

Even now, the slightest smell of exhaust still makes me very nauseous until I can remove my self from the area of the odor. So that is the rest of the story about me not noticing any fumes while using any of the oil cookstoves I have encountered in the past. There is no way that I would have missed the smell of any fumes produced in the cabin, especially as small as both of those cabins were.

[edit]
And I don't understand how the cookstove and heater that I linked above could release fumes into the living area since both units are externally vented, and combustion air is drawn in from outside, resulting in positive pressure in the living space.

[ACamper]

I guess I have only experienced the old oil heaters. I knew a couple of people with kerosene shop heaters that were horrible, I hated going into their shop.

I knew one old biker who had a couple of kerosene heaters in his shop and house, he would buy diesel for them because it was cheaper. His walls and everything had a black coating from the diesel soot. In the winter when it got cold he would have soot all over his face. He would invite me inside I would stand by the door and leave as soon as I could.

[john61ct]

New, high-tech vs old-school lo-tek
Sober vs dazed&confused
Smart / particular vs not so much

Trifecta!

[banman]

Originally Posted by ACamper

I guess I have only experienced the old oil heaters. I knew a couple of people with kerosene shop heaters that were horrible, I hated going into their shop.

I knew one old biker who had a couple of kerosene heaters in his shop and house, he would buy diesel for them because it was cheaper. His walls and everything had a black coating from the diesel soot. In the winter when it got cold he would have soot all over his face. He would invite me inside I would stand by the door and leave as soon as I could.

That's frightening...

I remember when I first moved to Colorado (1992...) and learned they didn't even sell kerosene heaters on the western slope -- I was told kero didn't burn proper above 5000' and kero burners weren't used here...

[gs1949]

The old biker's heaters sound like they were nonvented. A lot of people heated with oil around here. It cost about ten cents a gallon in the 1950s. I remember a lot of brown oil stoves when I was a kid, but they were all vented. Worked without electricity, so we used to often see them in garages or shops.

[ACamper]

Originally Posted by banman

That's frightening...

I remember when I first moved to Colorado (1992...) and learned they didn't even sell kerosene heaters on the western slope -- I was told kero didn't burn proper above 5000' and kero burners weren't used here...

Interesting about the elevation. I have never seen many kerosene or diesel heaters at all in Colorado. Usually people "off grid" here heat with wood or propane.

The old biker would spend a lot of time in junk yards and making stuff out of nothing. The weird toxic heater just matched the rest of his odd ball dangerous stuff. Other then that in Colorado I have just seen the “torpedo” heaters at shops and construction sites. In shops I see people use propane on construction sites they seem to like gas/oil probably because it is easier to tote around and fill.