Best hot water heater for shower??

[E&Dbus]

I’m looking for suggestions on what brand I should use for my hot water heater. It needs to be something reliable and easy to install. Please and thanks!!

[HamSkoolie]

I'll be watching as well since we need TWO hot water heaters in our rig

[rossvtaylor]

I'm a big fan of these, which also come in a 2.64 gpm version (for $299). I've used the cheaper versions, designed for exterior mounting, and they will work if you vent them...but you still have to play with the water flow and gas rates...they're not ideal. These Camplux heaters work great.

[E&Dbus]

Originally Posted by rossvtaylor

I'm a big fan of these, which also come in a 2.64 gpm version (for $299). I've used the cheaper versions, designed for exterior mounting, and they will work if you vent them...but you still have to play with the water flow and gas rates...they're not ideal. These Camplux heaters work great.

Attachment 63916

Thanks for the suggestion! I’ve been looking at those ones. A couple of questions:
The one you linked that can be installed inside?
And so far how long have you had yours/ been using it?

[WIbluebird]

Originally Posted by E&Dbus

Thanks for the suggestion! I’ve been looking at those ones. A couple of questions:
The one you linked that can be installed inside?
And so far how long have you had yours/ been using it?

Not him but I see the opening at the top where you could run a vent to the exterior of the bus.

[somewhereinusa]

Originally Posted by HamSkoolie

I'll be watching as well since we need TWO hot water heaters in our rig

Why? Now I have to type more words here.

[rossvtaylor]

The version I linked to is designed to be vented to the exterior, but installed inside somewhere.

The cheaper (sub $200) versions are designed to be installed outside...but they can be modified to vent...which I've done, but cannot endorse as being "right". The downside of the cheaper versions, with the two knobs (water flow and gas flow) is that they don't actually heat to a temperature. The temp of the water coming out depends upon how high you turn the gas flow (burner) knob and how fast the water flows through the heated coils...so it can lead to some variation while you shower. They will work like this, but they aren't as "home like" as the units which let you pick a temp...and which are designed to work just like a home tankless heater.

The unit I pictured in my earlier post heats to a temperature...which makes it very much like your hot water at home. That's the Camplux CA318 model. The lower gpm version has a temp display, but also has the dual knobs, so I cannot verify that it will maintain a temp like the CA318 does. I've used a 318 for over a year and been very happy. Of note...we're at 7000 feet, but the specs say it's not suitable for locations over 2000 feet. We've had no issues here.

[E&Dbus]

Thank you so much that’s extremely helpful!

[Rucker]

Mine is similar to Ross', a Camplux 2.64 GPM with two control knobs
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It has a fan that blows the combustion gas through a vent pipe. You turn the knobs for a) water volume and b) flame. It shows the output temp but like Ross said, it doesn't actually regulate the temp. If the input temp of the water changes, so will the output temp. Standard operation for these devices, I think.

Works like a champ.

Mine is installed in the bus, and I run the combustion exhaust pipe through a side window.

[HamSkoolie]

Originally Posted by somewhereinusa

Why? Now I have to type more words here.

Because we are going to incorporate a water reclamation system with mechanical and reverse osmosis filtration as well as UV and chlorine or bromine sterilization. That system will supply the shower, washing machine, outside shower and outside spigots. It will pull water from the gray tank, mechanically and RO filter it, sterilize it, and store 30-40 gallons. The kitchen and bathroom sink will be supplied with fresh water directly from the potable water tank and will need a separate water heater to prevent cross contamination from the reclaimed system.
After we've been on the road with the system we will have water samples from the reclamation system tested to determine if we need more treatment or if the reclaimed water is potable in an emergency.

The RO filter we are looking at is capable of 400 gallons per day output so refilling a 40 gallon tank from completely empty should only take 2.5 hours. The washing machine only requires about 30 gallons for an entire large load and a long luxurious shower shouldn't take more than 20 gallons (at 2GPM that's TEN minutes at full flow).

With a 200 gallon potable supply and the reclamation system, we hope to make water a non issue for boondocking time..... just how much food can we store?

[HamSkoolie]

Oh yes...
The design criteria handed down by the boss was
1) 24/7 AC capability while off grid
2) "Real" showers.
3) Cat box vented to the outside
4) Walk around bed



I threw in the outside shower for hygiene and roof top spigot for ease of washing solar panels, and the reclamation system to extend our potable water supply without sacrificing showers and laundry.

[Veloc]

The RO system you're using, how much waste water does it produce per gallon of clean water? RO makes clean water but is pretty wasteful for water in general. Any of the systems I've looked at will waste 2 gallons of water per clean gallon produced. Cartridge filters can get the water just about as clean, and if combined with the UV and chlorine/bromide the water should be completely potable only without losing 2/3 of the water in the process.

Considering what RO systems cost, figured I'd ask.

[HamSkoolie]

Originally Posted by Veloc

The RO system you're using, how much waste water does it produce per gallon of clean water? RO makes clean water but is pretty wasteful for water in general. Any of the systems I've looked at will waste 2 gallons of water per clean gallon produced. Cartridge filters can get the water just about as clean, and if combined with the UV and chlorine/bromide the water should be completely potable only without losing 2/3 of the water in the process.

Considering what RO systems cost, figured I'd ask.

My research suggests that RO systems produce 19 parts waste to 1 gallon of processed water. Even at two parts waste per part processed it's a massive waste in a home because it goes right into the sewer and is lost. However, in my design that waste goes right back to the grey tank from which it was first drawn.
The reason there is so much waste in an RO system is to keep the non processed side of the RO membrane as "clean" as possible. Once some of the clear water has passed through, it is more productive to provide a cleaner supply to the "dirty" side. By returning that "dirty" side water back to the source, there is no actual waste. In fact, because it was processed by the screen and cartridge filters, it will actually dilute the contaminants in the grey tank.

So, by using RO as the next to last step, UV sterilization being the last step, the feed water into the RO unit should be fairly clean already. RO simply removes as much additional contamination as possible before UV (and possibly chlorine or bromine treatment) sterilization.
The systems I'm looking at for the RO unit are in the appx $400 range and supposedly are capable of 400 gallons of output per 24 hour period. Since the reclamation tank will be only 35-40 gallons, it shouldn't be very taxing on the system and I expect the screen and cartridge filters will require far more maintenance than the RO unit. Further, the RO unit doesn't require power other than for providing pressurized water at the input side and only requires that power when it needs to produce water.
So, by returning the RO unit waste flow to the grey tank maximum retention is retained. Water that can't be reclaimed will be limited to the water used on the roof to clean solar panels, the outdoor shower when used, outdoor spigot, and toilet flush water all of which will be fed from the reclaimed tank and, with the exception of toilet flush water, be returned to the grey tank. Toilet flush and kitchen sink water is the only water that will be lost to the black tank.
That's the PLAN. Should the plan not work out, the plumbing will be originally installed so that the shower can be converted to a recirculating system in order to retain some water reuse and everything else will go to grey or black.

[Rwnielsen]

Originally Posted by rossvtaylor

I'm a big fan of these, which also come in a 2.64 gpm version (for $299). I've used the cheaper versions, designed for exterior mounting, and they will work if you vent them...but you still have to play with the water flow and gas rates...they're not ideal. These Camplux heaters work great.

Attachment 63916

I ordered one in the 2.64 gpm variety based solely on your recommendation. I did a little snooping around and found it requires 42 watts, .38 amps at 110 vac...for the ignition, controller and exhaust fan. I'm going to try and find a small, decent quality, 24 volt to 110 inverter so I don't have to use my 2.4 kW to take a shower or wash dishes. I have several generators but my goal here is minimize their use. It looks like a well thought out unit, the exhaust fan seems to be the only difference between residential and outdoor models.
Thanks for the tip!

[TheHubbardBus]

Originally Posted by HamSkoolie

My research suggests that RO systems produce 19 parts waste to 1 gallon of processed water. Even at two parts waste per part processed it's a massive waste in a home because it goes right into the sewer and is lost. However, in my design that waste goes right back to the grey tank from which it was first drawn.
The reason there is so much waste in an RO system is to keep the non processed side of the RO membrane as "clean" as possible. Once some of the clear water has passed through, it is more productive to provide a cleaner supply to the "dirty" side. By returning that "dirty" side water back to the source, there is no actual waste. In fact, because it was processed by the screen and cartridge filters, it will actually dilute the contaminants in the grey tank.

So, by using RO as the next to last step, UV sterilization being the last step, the feed water into the RO unit should be fairly clean already. RO simply removes as much additional contamination as possible before UV (and possibly chlorine or bromine treatment) sterilization.
The systems I'm looking at for the RO unit are in the appx $400 range and supposedly are capable of 400 gallons of output per 24 hour period. Since the reclamation tank will be only 35-40 gallons, it shouldn't be very taxing on the system and I expect the screen and cartridge filters will require far more maintenance than the RO unit. Further, the RO unit doesn't require power other than for providing pressurized water at the input side and only requires that power when it needs to produce water.
So, by returning the RO unit waste flow to the grey tank maximum retention is retained. Water that can't be reclaimed will be limited to the water used on the roof to clean solar panels, the outdoor shower when used, outdoor spigot, and toilet flush water all of which will be fed from the reclaimed tank and, with the exception of toilet flush water, be returned to the grey tank. Toilet flush and kitchen sink water is the only water that will be lost to the black tank.
That's the PLAN. Should the plan not work out, the plumbing will be originally installed so that the shower can be converted to a recirculating system in order to retain some water reuse and everything else will go to grey or black.

I'm very interested in how this turns out. Great project and great idea!

[rossvtaylor]

Originally Posted by Rwnielsen

I ordered one in the 2.64 gpm variety based solely on your recommendation. I did a little snooping around and found it requires 42 watts, .38 amps at 110 vac...for the ignition, controller and exhaust fan. I'm going to try and find a small, decent quality, 24 volt to 110 inverter so I don't have to use my 2.4 kW to take a shower or wash dishes. I have several generators but my goal here is minimize their use. It looks like a well thought out unit, the exhaust fan seems to be the only difference between residential and outdoor models.
Thanks for the tip!

Thanks for the faith! I hope it works well for you. I should have clarified that the fan and ignition circuit run off 110-120VAC. The popular cheaper units run off a couple of D cell batteries. But my builds always have AC power available.

In my electrical system design writings, I always promote 2 inverters...a small one for things which you might want to run all the time (like chargers and clocks and the water heater) and a larger one (with a remote on/off switch panel) for higher draw devices and appliances...like the induction cooktop, coffee maker, tools. I like your plan and will follow along as you implement it.

[Rwnielsen]

This is fascinating. Having worked in refinery water treatment plants I can only imagine a large array of pumps, pipework and monitors. The thought of doing this on a miniaturized scale, in a bus, is just more than I can wrap my head around. I can't wait to see how you work this out.
Terrific : -)

[Mr_Geenie]

I went with a Fogatti thankless propane water heater specifically designed for RVs and motorhomes. It was pricier than most bus systems, but it is also much smaller, more reliable, and designed to be mounted and vented inside a living area. It has a maximum gallon per minute considerably higher than the water pump I have connected to my fresh tank, and will tolerate a higher PSI than the limiting valve I have installed in line on my city water connection.

[Rwnielsen]

Originally Posted by rossvtaylor

Thanks for the faith! I hope it works well for you. I should have clarified that the fan and ignition circuit run off 110-120VAC. The popular cheaper units run off a couple of D cell batteries. But my builds always have AC power available.

In my electrical system design writings, I always promote 2 inverters...a small one for things which you might want to run all the time (like chargers and clocks and the water heater) and a larger one (with a remote on/off switch panel) for higher draw devices and appliances...like the induction cooktop, coffee maker, tools. I like your plan and will follow along as you implement it.

I should have it this week. I also found a 24 volt, 400w, pure sine wave inverter that I can use to run it. My 2 solar/inverter chargers are 2400 watts each and I have the parallel setup that I don't think I'll use. Even a 2400 watt inverter is ludicrous to power a fan and LCD display. Everything is an experiment

[Rwnielsen]

Originally Posted by rossvtaylor

Thanks for the faith! I hope it works well for you. I should have clarified that the fan and ignition circuit run off 110-120VAC. The popular cheaper units run off a couple of D cell batteries. But my builds always have AC power available.

In my electrical system design writings, I always promote 2 inverters...a small one for things which you might want to run all the time (like chargers and clocks and the water heater) and a larger one (with a remote on/off switch panel) for higher draw devices and appliances...like the induction cooktop, coffee maker, tools. I like your plan and will follow along as you implement it.

This is temporary but I wanted to see it work. That wall is coming down shortly. I have two of everything in this photo. It's throttled back a bit by #6 wire and a 65 amp breaker but I honestly don't anticipate using much 120 volt from battery power. getting it to 'fire up' was a challenge as my Mandarin is a little sketchy and there's a definite sequence. When I do a final install I'll go with #2 wire and 100 a amp breaker, neatin it up and call it a day.
Here's the required sideways photo...