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12-16-2019, 11:51 PM
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#1
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Skoolie
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Gulfport, MS
Posts: 154
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Bluebird All American Re
Engine: Cat 3126
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Black tar removal from inside walls and ceiling
I am currently raising the roof of my 2000 Bluebird RE. I plan to spray foam, my question(s) are...
1 - Do I need to remove the black tar from the inside that appears to be a form of sound deadening / insulation adhesive before I can spray foam?
2 - If yes, how do I remove it? I have tried a paint scraper (useless), an oscillating saw with scraper blade (doesn't work), sawzall with scraper blade (not working), grinder with 3 different types of wire wheels (works somewhat but makes a horrible sticky mess).
Thanks for any help!
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12-16-2019, 11:56 PM
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#2
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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If it was mine I would leave it alone.
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
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12-17-2019, 06:32 AM
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#3
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Skoolie
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Gulfport, MS
Posts: 154
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Bluebird All American Re
Engine: Cat 3126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc
If it was mine I would leave it alone.
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Leave it alone how? Leave the tar and spray over it or leave it alone like don't mess with the factory insulation and tar at all?
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12-17-2019, 06:57 AM
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#4
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,826
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bridg73988
I am currently raising the roof of my 2000 Bluebird RE. I plan to spray foam, my question(s) are...
1 - Do I need to remove the black tar from the inside that appears to be a form of sound deadening / insulation adhesive before I can spray foam?
2 - If yes, how do I remove it? I have tried a paint scraper (useless), an oscillating saw with scraper blade (doesn't work), sawzall with scraper blade (not working), grinder with 3 different types of wire wheels (works somewhat but makes a horrible sticky mess).
Thanks for any help!
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I had to remove mine. Took a LOT of work. Mine was causing moisture to get trapped between it and the steel.
Easiest was to carefully use aircraft stripper.
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12-17-2019, 09:36 AM
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#5
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Weeki Wachee, FL
Posts: 3,056
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: Cummins 5.9
Rated Cap: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
I had to remove mine. Took a LOT of work. Mine was causing moisture to get trapped between it and the steel.
Easiest was to carefully use aircraft stripper.
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That ceiling looks like my floor! Bleh!
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12-17-2019, 09:43 AM
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#6
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,826
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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i was so glad i pulled the ceiling!
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12-17-2019, 09:57 AM
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#7
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Rapid City, SD
Posts: 993
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: CS RE
Engine: ISC 8.3 L 260 hp
Rated Cap: 36
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I removed the tar off of my ceiling and walls. It was a miserable job but now that it's done I'm glad I did it. Mine was especially thick up to 1/4 inch in places and sticky when it was hot. Some people only have a light spray that is not tacky.
Ted
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12-17-2019, 10:07 AM
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#8
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Moved to Zealand!
Posts: 1,517
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner FS-65
Engine: 7.2L Cat 3126 turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 71 passenger 30,000 gvwr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
i was so glad i pulled the ceiling!
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Was this on your FS65?
I'm pretty sure I have nothing up there -- no insulation, no tar.
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12-17-2019, 10:15 AM
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#9
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,826
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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naw, it was on a 1992 Ward Senator. Same bus as an Amtran Genesis.
Not planning to pull my steel headliner but my bus is just a toy for fun on weekends at most.
May do it eventually but I'm feeling lazy about it. Glad its not perforated. I just like the look of the plain steel better and my bus is already real quiet.
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12-17-2019, 10:56 AM
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#10
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Rapid City, SD
Posts: 993
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: CS RE
Engine: ISC 8.3 L 260 hp
Rated Cap: 36
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I removed the tar from mine and it was a miserable job but now that it's done I'm glad I did it. Mine was almost 1/4 inch thick in places and sticky when it was hot. That caused me concern for sprayfoam adhering to it. Other people have buses where it more of thin overspray and not sticky. I think that would be OK to foam over.
Ted
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12-17-2019, 12:22 PM
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#11
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bridg73988
Leave it alone how? Leave the tar and spray over it or leave it alone like don't mess with the factory insulation and tar at all?
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I removed the insulation, but saw no issue with leaving the "adhesive" alone. It doesn't look like it has deteriorated at all in the last 20 years, so spraying foam over it would not be an issue for me, Cleaning it off would be a major pain for little gain if any.
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
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12-17-2019, 12:58 PM
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#12
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 1,635
Year: 2000
Chassis: Blue Bird
Engine: ISC 8.3
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Unfortunately the biggest problem is probably that you're trying to do it at the wrong time of year. July is much better than (nearly) January: the tar stuff removes much easier when it is warm and soft.
Soften it with a hot air gun and then use the powered or manual scrapers to remove the bulk. There'll be some residue left behind; it can be wiped away with a solvent. I like VM&P Naphtha for this because it's very slow drying.
I haven't tried ECCB's aircraft stripper method. Note that it isn't the same stuff it used to be. My paint supplier told me that the methylene chloride based formula couldn't be sold after August (I think?) of last year.
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12-17-2019, 01:26 PM
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#13
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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You guys are glutons for punishment. It seems to me that the "tar" should make a good sealer, we put it on our concrete walls to keep water from penetrating. I see one case where it is claimed it traps water, sounds highly unusual. Unless I knew of a negative reaction with the foam that has been proven I would not subject myself to that torture, just saying. It's a process I doubt will make a difference and no one will ever know if it was done or not, other than that bad memory of the job. There's enough of those jobs as it is.
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
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12-17-2019, 01:47 PM
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#14
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,826
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc
You guys are glutons for punishment. It seems to me that the "tar" should make a good sealer, we put it on our concrete walls to keep water from penetrating. I see one case where it is claimed it traps water, sounds highly unusual. Unless I knew of a negative reaction with the foam that has been proven I would not subject myself to that torture, just saying. It's a process I doubt will make a difference and no one will ever know if it was done or not, other than that bad memory of the job. There's enough of those jobs as it is.
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Mine was totally disgusting with rot and rust. Asphalteum can and will trap moisture as the condensation happens over the years. Your bus may be fine but that's not some gospel truth for everyone. WHat's in your bus clearly isn't the same as what some of us have dealt with.
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12-17-2019, 01:51 PM
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#15
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Dawsonville, Ga.
Posts: 10,482
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/3060
Rated Cap: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
Mine was totally disgusting with rot and rust. Asphalteum can and will trap moisture as the condensation happens over the years. Your bus may be fine but that's not some gospel truth for everyone. WHat's in your bus clearly isn't the same as what some of us have dealt with.
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I haven't heard anyone else with the rusty roof issue you had. It doesn't seem to be a common issue. If the roof and tar look like mine, I would leave it alone. Obviously if you have an issue, deal with it. But I still see no issue with leaving it alone if it is intact.
__________________
I Thank God That He Gifted Me with Common Sense
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12-20-2019, 08:57 PM
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#16
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Skoolie
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Gulfport, MS
Posts: 154
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Bluebird All American Re
Engine: Cat 3126
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Thanks for the replies and discussion everybody. For some reason I stopped getting alerts on this thread and thought nobody was responding. My tar and metal are in good shape, I was just worried that the spray insulation would not stick to the tar and would later release.
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12-20-2019, 11:04 PM
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#17
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Rapid City, SD
Posts: 993
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: CS RE
Engine: ISC 8.3 L 260 hp
Rated Cap: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bridg73988
Thanks for the replies and discussion everybody. For some reason I stopped getting alerts on this thread and thought nobody was responding. My tar and metal are in good shape, I was just worried that the spray insulation would not stick to the tar and would later release.
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You could always spray some Great Stuff on it and see how well/long it sticks compared to bare metal.
Ted
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12-21-2019, 12:21 AM
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#18
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Skoolie
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Gulfport, MS
Posts: 154
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Bluebird All American Re
Engine: Cat 3126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJones
You could always spray some Great Stuff on it and see how well/long it sticks compared to bare metal.
Ted
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Not a bad idea, thanks!
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12-25-2019, 07:14 PM
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#19
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 11
Year: 2003
Chassis: Microbird
Engine: 7.3L Diesel
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I removed mine because i read it was extremely flammable and id seen many skoolie fires that looked pretty bad anfld i suspected this is why. It is a huge mess. Also saw a dude who ignited his while welding and burned a hole in the bus. Anywho i used Turtlewax Bug and Tar remover which worked well aside from being messy. No toxic fumes from the aerosol airplane cleaner
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12-25-2019, 07:17 PM
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#20
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Skoolie
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Gulfport, MS
Posts: 154
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Bluebird All American Re
Engine: Cat 3126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queen_bee
I removed mine because i read it was extremely flammable and id seen many skoolie fires that looked pretty bad anfld i suspected this is why. It is a huge mess. Also saw a dude who ignited his while welding and burned a hole in the bus. Anywho i used Turtlewax Bug and Tar remover which worked well aside from being messy. No toxic fumes from the aerosol airplane cleaner
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Oh wow! It would be nice if that would work. I'll pick some up tomorrow and try it, thanks.
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