Bypass driver's heater

[Tyania]

I know many remove the rear heaters but can the driver's heater be removed? We would like the driver's area to double as a desk... swivel toward the driver side window and use the side dash and heater area as a small desk.

I am thinking that we could move the rear heater up, right behind the driver's seat and completely bypass and remove the driver's heater unit. However, in that driver's heater area I see 2 fans or a fan and something else????? (bottom left and upper right in photo)



Would the rear heater provide everything that the bus heating/engine cooling system needs??? I do not want to compromise the engine cooling abilities, of course.

[Robin97396]

Your radiator should be able to handle your engine cooling needs regardless of the heaters.

That said, I've never seen that configuration in the pic.

[cadillackid]

those arew the main windshield defrosters.. get caught in a cold rain and you will want those.. you can take out all the heaters you want and not hurt the bus but you will likely need to get ready to bundle up and carry windshield scrapers with you if you are going to drive in inclement weather..

if you are going to stay south of the border mainly then obviously heat wont be a real concern. but if you plan to travel into the states and north during the cool months you'll want those heaters..

-Christopher

[Tyania]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

those arew the main windshield defrosters.

Which part is the windshield defroster? or rather which parts are involved in that?

Thanks.
Can someone ID that upper right (blower?)?
Where is the coolant 'boost' controlled?

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Tyania

Which part is the windshield defroster? or rather which parts are involved in that?

Thanks.
Can someone ID that upper right (blower?)?
Where is the coolant 'boost' controlled?

the upper fan is your defroster.. but the bottom is the heater core which generates the heat for the defroster.. and the small blower on the bottom is for the driver heat.. so both parts are integral. the driver heater is a combo unit. with mix doors to direct the air.

the coolant booster pump may or may not be inside the bus.. and some dont have one. one ofmy busses has the heater booster pump between the first and second seats on the left side in a box on the floor.. my other bus its mounted under the hood near the heater valves..


the heater system has nothing to do with engine cooling as its designed to have its valves closed off during the warm months where no coolant circulates through it at all...

I drive both my busses with the heater valves closed in summer so my Air-conditioners work better.. and they dont over-heat..

in cold weather it takes a lot of heat to keep a bus warm.. esp depending on how many windows you are going to pull out.. its 24 degrees F here tonight and I was driving my bluebird shorty for a good 30 minutes before i turned the heaters from max to medium.. and I have all new door seals and my heaters are all in perfect shape.. i refurbed them..

-Christopher

[Robin97396]

They put the defroster under the seat? I wonder what's in the dashboard. Oh, I bet there's AC considering the climate. Duh.

Nice bus.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Robin97396

They put the defroster under the seat? I wonder what's in the dashboard. Oh, I bet there's AC considering the climate. Duh.

Nice bus.

robin, thats inside the driver compartment.. they are wanting to take the lower part out so a chair can slide under and outfit some type of tabletop.. then use an old under-seat heater just nehind that area for heating...

issue is that doesnt give them defrosting or alot of heat.. they might be fine if they are staying south but if they go north in cold weather its gonna be a chilly fogged-window ride esp in rain / snow...

i dont see any Dash A/C in that system compartment.

-Christopher

[Robin97396]

My bag, I thought that pick was a side shot of the driver's seat. Ok, now it's making more sense.

Nevermind.

[Tyania]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

those arew the main windshield defrosters.. get caught in a cold rain and you will want those.. you can take out all the heaters you want and not hurt the bus but you will likely need to get ready to bundle up and carry windshield scrapers with you if you are going to drive in inclement weather..

if you are going to stay south of the border mainly then obviously heat wont be a real concern. but if you plan to travel into the states and north during the cool months you'll want those heaters..

-Christopher

Still can't shake the idea of using that side dash area as a desk area. Mine is a small bus intended for long term use so we are pressed to make space. BUT, I do agree that the defrost is an issue of basic security. Trying to figure out how to relocate the heater behind the driver, run the air ducts along the side of the driver (tucked father back than the original wider setup that includes the heater itself), and still get the air to the defrost. Any ideas? Anyone seen it done? Anyone think it can be done? Anyone think it is a bad idea?

[cadillackid]

I ducted my vents when I rebuilt my driver box.. its pretty easy to do.. not sure how your driver heater unit is built. but automotive 3 inch ducting can be run.. air needs space to flow in so you'll still lose some space to the ducting and the heater hoses..

I dont know how much dash space you have up front but you could locate a heating unit beside the original right-side heater and under the dash. then duct it up to the windshield.. be sure to run some ducts over pointing down or you will be bundled uo with cold feeties driving in cold weather.. personally I cant stand anything close to being bundled up so I make sure my heaters are A-1 functional..

some of the parts i used for my system are.. plenum.. which is designed to concvert a square or rectangular opening into round openings for round automotive duct..

Plenum

air vents..

Louvers

ducting is typically standard 3 inch or 2.5 inch flex hose.. you can likely reconnect to the existing defroster vents with your ducting and some creativity.. I did so on my carpenter bus..

you can also use minisplit Line-hide as a nice heater duct.. I did this also.. it comes in 2 halves, cnaps together and there are flex joints, etc.. I cut holes for vents in it...

you can make ducting out of this stuff..

https://www.diversitech.com/feature-product-line





-Christopher

[Tyania]

[cadillackid]

you'll have to get creative but you could move that and duct it.. looks like the defroster air comes from the second blower on top.. it will likely just be a hole up there that you could fab up a little sheet metal or a plenum and duct it.. the bottom fan is the foot warmer.. with the front cover on im guessing that just leaves a recrangular hole there.. you can duct that...

there are also more powerful units that fit into a somewhat compact space too...

the units i chose to put into my drivers box when I gutted it are probably not the greatest examples as i used Heat / Cool units so I could have refrigerated defrosters..
-Christopher

[Tyania]

OK... looks like we will start ripping it out to see how it all is set up. That will leave us no choice but to figure it out. Hoping we don´t get ourselves in trouble.

[Tyania]

And... trouble is here.
So we have taken out every screw we can find and disconnected every cable only to find that the side dash unit still won't come off in one piece. There is something holding it on at the bottom front area. So it truly is the point of no return. If we rip it out by force or cutting or what not, parts will likely be broken.

Originally Posted by cadillackid

there are also more powerful units that fit into a somewhat compact space too...
-Christopher

So, Christopher (or anyone else), any idea where I might look for a compact heater unit that I might be able to place tucked up in the corner under the defrost blower enough that the legroom area for the desk is open? Just powerful enough the keep the drivers feet and hands warm and defrost functional in mildly cold weather.
Let me see if I can draw up a plan of what I am thinking...

[Tyania]

Reasonable?

[Tyania]

Removal:
We have the heater unit completely removed. The entire dash had to be disassembled in order to get the side dash unit loose. We also had to create a temporary mount for the fuse panel since the side dash unit was the support where the fuse panel was mounted.

Goal: (recap) Open up the space under the side dash enough to give room for the drivers chair to swivel and leg room for the driver to use the former side dash as a small desk space. All the while, keep some warm air for the defrost and driver's feet. We plan to be in relatively warm weather so this is just enough for driving on a cool morning.

Plan:
I want to go ahead and put in a small heater under the defrost blower for the defrost and drivers feet and then continue the coolant lines back to the rear heater (which will be under the passenger bench seat behind the driver).

I am thinking of this unit... boxing it in under the defrost blower with the side vents for the driver.


The hose fittings on the small heater are 5/8". The original heater also had reduced coolant fittings... the bus coolant hose is 1".
This is the hose layout that I would be using.


Just hoping a few of you can confirm or deny this as a viable plan and product before buying, building, and installing. Thanks.

[BlackJohn]

Just wondering what the specs are on that heater. Probably ok if you are staying in warm climate and can get it connected to the defrost ducting.
Could you use the existing fan to distribute the heat?
Is there a valve to close the existing heater from the engine compartment?

John

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

If you are going through the heater hose effort then I would like to recommend either moving the rubber hoses under the bus and only come up in the house where you want your heater or if you want to leave them in the house then actually hard pipe them where they are hidden.
For me and rubber tubing? It's not if its going to leak it's how long before it leaks?
My old floor was rubber so of it leaked it would be noticeable because it ran out into the rubber floor.
Our buses we add insulation and pretty flooring and if that coolant line leaks then you might notice you have to add coolant every now and then to your radiator but you don't know where it's going until your pretty finished flooring is showing signs of water damage and that includes everything from the leak out to the noticeable everyday walk area.
Then that's all a tear out a fix.
I don't have that in my bus but I have met with local to me two members that do.
I personally say to get it out of the bus.
I reccomend that even if you have to buy some fittings to do it the only coolant lines in the bus should be the drivers defrost and run the long heater lines from the engine compartment under the bus. A length of PVC pipe secured to the frame on the outside of the driveline to where you want it turned up at will protect the lines from road debris and not if but when the rubber lines do leak and you can see it run out of the PVC pipe that the lines are ran in.
It only works when the bus is running and warm. So in my mind placement is where everyone is setting while going down the road

[Twigg]

WIth my rear engine I need the coolant pipes for front heat and defrost. They are going under the bus, covered in pipe insulation to prevent heat loss, and tied to the frame.

[Tyania]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223

If you are going through the heater hose effort then I would like to recommend either moving the rubber hoses under the bus and only come up in the house where you want your heater or if you want to leave them in the house then actually hard pipe them where they are hidden.
For me and rubber tubing? It's not if its going to leak it's how long before it leaks?
My old floor was rubber so of it leaked it would be noticeable because it ran out into the rubber floor.
Our buses we add insulation and pretty flooring and if that coolant line leaks then you might notice you have to add coolant every now and then to your radiator but you don't know where it's going until your pretty finished flooring is showing signs of water damage and that includes everything from the leak out to the noticeable everyday walk area.
Then that's all a tear out a fix.
I don't have that in my bus but I have met with local to me two members that do.
I personally say to get it out of the bus.
I reccomend that even if you have to buy some fittings to do it the only coolant lines in the bus should be the drivers defrost and run the long heater lines from the engine compartment under the bus. A length of PVC pipe secured to the frame on the outside of the driveline to where you want it turned up at will protect the lines from road debris and not if but when the rubber lines do leak and you can see it run out of the PVC pipe that the lines are ran in.
It only works when the bus is running and warm. So in my mind placement is where everyone is setting while going down the road

Thank you both. I was thinking about running them under the bus and you answered without even asking. I assumed that it could be a problem due to the debris but the pvc is an interesting solution.

Why do they use the tubing rather than hard metal pipe anyhow? burn risk? or risk of coolant cooling off in cold outside temps (good thing for engine... maybe bad on the way to the heater, I dont know)? Could I run hard pipe under the bus? I would be running the coolant a max of 8 feet from the driver/defrost heater to the rear. Perhaps only 4 feet depending on which bench seat I put it under.

I really dig the idea of putting it under the bus in hard and/or metal pipe. What exactly could I use???