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Old 06-08-2020, 10:36 PM   #1
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Changing my mind about fridge power source

So, I have salvaged a fridge from a camper where I got a ton of parts to repurpose in my bus. The fridge is an item of concern for me. I will be doing mostly boondocking and not connected to shore power. This is why I wanted a 2 way fridge that can run off of propane and 110v power. That being said. I am scare that my salvaged fridge will break and I will need to replace it with something that new that will cost an arm and a leg. I am trying to convince myself to go with a smaller "apartment" fridge that runs off of 110v. some of the reasons I am trying to convince myself of this are many. first, I will not need to cut a vent in the roof to vent the heat and fumes which I would love to avoid. Second, also I would not need to install an access panel on the back of the fridge for maintenance purposes.

I already have a new generator that I plan to use. I am thinking that just running this in the evening for 2 or 3 hours to charge the batteries and power the fridge that should be enough to keep all the items in the fridge cool. Also these units are a bit bigger that the unit I have. The fridge I currently have is 5 cu. ft. If I go with an "apartment" fridge I can get 7 to 10 cu. ft.

My main concern would be securing it down while we are in motion.... can you all provide me with some options? also keeping the doors closed while in motion is another issue as RV fridges have a locking latch.

Solar set up is not off the table, but not in this phase of the build. I would love to eventually add a solar set up.

I look forward to hearing your responses. Take care and skoolie on.

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Old 06-08-2020, 11:18 PM   #2
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It’s a challenge. I met an RV parts dealer that had everything under the sun except used refrigerators. When asked he said they’re never any good, referring to the Dometic 3 way fridges. We had propane ones in all the RVs growing up and they all performed marginally, mostly not working, but then freezing up solid. Pilot light would go out a lot and then stuff would get warm. It’s been a while, so maybe they have gotten better.

Running a gennie to charge the batteries to run the fridge sounds like a bummer. I hate generators with a passion.

If you have battery, why not put a couple panels on the roof?

It’s expensive I know.
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Old 06-09-2020, 06:24 AM   #3
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I have an apartment/dorm room fridge, 4.7 cu ft, 120 volts. Bought it from Lowe's. It came with a locking door. I expect to keep dorm mates from raiding your fridge or for use at home to keep kids out of the beer.

It is bolted down by removeing the leveling legs and running a bolt up through the shelve it is sitting on and into the threaded holes for the leveling legs.
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Old 06-09-2020, 06:27 AM   #4
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Here it is mounted with pantry storage above and below it. Water tank next to it, and closet the other side
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Old 06-09-2020, 06:52 AM   #5
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As Danjo said, it is a challenge. Finding the ideal "balance" really requires some experience with the equipment options as well as how you will be using them, and that is hard to come by. I lived with absorption refrigerators (mostly boondocking) for a few years in motorhomes that I had. They used very little propane and very little 12vdc power and worked - that part was wonderful. However; compared to a residential refrigerator/freezer, the absorption types just barely kept cold things cold and frozen things frozen - plus they were small.

You mentioned a hole in your roof - you also need a hole in the side. The venting of absorption units is super important. When RV manufacturers get it wrong and you hear lots of complaints by the owners.

As mentioned all over the Internet, when absorption refrigerators leak (ammonia), they are a fire risk. I've heard it said that when an RV has a fire, the absorption refrigerator is statistically the most likely culprit. Still, there are many of them out there and RV's are not burning to the ground every night so they must have gotten better over the years.

For my style of use, I decided that investing in a good electrical system (including solar) was a better use of funds than propane system and absorption fridge. Obviously that will vary from one person to the next. If you already have propane for stove and/or heat - then an absorption unit is an attractive option.

No matter what type of refrigerator you have, it must be secured. That usually involves framing in it.
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Old 06-09-2020, 10:16 AM   #6
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USA fridges designed to run off mains power (110Vac) are **very** inefficient, even before adding the extra consumption using an inverter.

This is no problem, if you are only going off-grid for say 2-3 days at a time then back to mains-serviced location.

I bought a kerosene fridge that was decades old, converted to propane, used it for 15 more years, was working fine when I sold it.

But then it was not bouncing around on the road.
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Old 06-09-2020, 10:43 AM   #7
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I can't speak for solar as I don't have it. I can tell you that based on my experience with 2 golf cart batteries an inverter and a 3000 w genny it is nearly possible to keep a frig operating 24/7. Most residential refrigerators run between 30% and 50% of the time depending mostly on how often the door is opened. I have found that the 2 hour run times allowed three times a day in the National parks to be hard to live with partly because you are so busy tending your genny that you really can't do much else. Also, that schedule doesn't allow for a full battery charge and things get worse with time. I hate it when my dinner makes me sick and a sure way to have it happen is to have a frig warm up over 40 degrees F. That is the magic temp for keeping food safe to eat. For each degree above 40 the safe to use interval drops like a rock. My crystal ball sees solar in your future.
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Old 06-09-2020, 12:34 PM   #8
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What about using an inverter like this one, for those of us who aren't ready to go full solar crazy? Will 300 watts of solar keep the fridge going?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...S6JDBCLC&psc=1

For now, all I am planning to run all the time off the inverter is the fridge. It's a 10 cubic ft runs about 750 watts. Not planning on much boondocking at all, I'll either be running the genny or plugged in. I'm sure with the occasional overnight at Wally World RV park.

They also have this one at less than 1/3 the cost, but it's a modified wave and only 1200 watts. That should power just the fridge just fine, but pure wave is so much better for appliances.

https://www.amazon.com/Inverter-Char...2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1
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Old 06-09-2020, 12:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackE View Post
What about using an inverter like this one, for those of us who aren't ready to go full solar crazy?
Let's be clear

An inverter is a **load** device, it pulls power from your DC circuit (usually depleting your House bank storage)

and puts out AC power to feed devices designed for mains power.

Now, how you put that energy **back** into your bank

is a completely different story.

Alternatives off grid, include ICE sources like a genset, and your alternator while driving

and solar panels.

Using an inverter cares nothing about your sources, wastes just the same percentage no matter what your inputs are.

Now your total inputs in Ah per 24hrs must be 10-20% higher that what you use on average.

A bigger bank just give a bigger buffer to carry you over between recharging, longer cycles, but that hurts lead batt longevity, need to replace the bank more frequently.

300W of solar **might** be enough to run an **efficient** fridge, but there are many variables

latitude, season, weather, temperature
tilting or not, clean or not, good panels or not

etc
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Old 06-09-2020, 01:28 PM   #10
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12v

https://www.whynter.com/product-cate...able-freezers/

my choice for my bus

direct from batteries no inverter loss I believe the motor is made for dc power so most efficient use of battery power.

william
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Old 06-09-2020, 01:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
USA fridges designed to run off mains power (110Vac) are **very** inefficient, even before adding the extra consumption using an inverter.

This is no problem, if you are only going off-grid for say 2-3 days at a time then back to mains-serviced location.

I bought a kerosene fridge that was decades old, converted to propane, used it for 15 more years, was working fine when I sold it.

But then it was not bouncing around on the road.
Sorry to go off topic-ish but...
I am intrigued by a "kerosene fridge". I've never heard of that but I bet it would be easy to convert to diesel and that intrigues me even more...

Did it have a pilot light or did it require electrical input?
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Old 06-09-2020, 01:39 PM   #12
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Let's be clear......
Thanks for the answer, but....

Just to be clear, I know what an inverter is, I know what an inverter does, I know it wastes as much power as it uses.

I'm not planning on running my entire bus off one measly battery and an inverter. I am also not going to spend $10K on a monster solar array and huge battery system.

I plan on being an old retired guy hopping from RV park to RV park with an occasional relatives house in-between. On the road, seeing the amazing sights our beautiful country has to offer. I expect to be plugged in, charging the batteries, most nights. Most likely running the generator most days while running down the road to power the A/C, while also charging the batteries.

My question was simply, will this small inverter with a built in 20 amp solar charger and up to 300 watts of solar be a good idea to keep the batteries charged up and the fridge running for those infrequent times the batteries aren't being maintained by the generator or shore power. ie. Hiking up a trail to see some wildlife at a state park while we are not in the bus and the fridge isn't being opened so most likely not running very often.
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Old 06-09-2020, 01:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnakansas View Post
https://www.whynter.com/product-cate...able-freezers/

my choice for my bus

direct from batteries no inverter loss I believe the motor is made for dc power so most efficient use of battery power.

william
Not nearly big enough, and with that price, I might as well buy a 3-way and not worry about an inverter. I don't plan on full timing, but at least 2-3 months at a time. I need way more space then a big cooler. Plus I already have the fridge.
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Old 06-09-2020, 02:04 PM   #14
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Yes straight DC compressor type is most efficient in North American market.

Some still use propane, and many circumstnces that's just fine or even better.

But definitely trending down for most.
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Old 06-09-2020, 02:10 PM   #15
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hopping from RV park to RV park with an occasional relatives house in-between.
And **that** is what will let you get by without what would be required for those with extended stays away from shore power.

And no, if you are going to do it, do it right, not cheap Chinese unknown bodged together gear.

From what you are describing just get a bigger bank to carry you through between shore powered overnights.
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Old 06-09-2020, 02:12 PM   #16
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I am intrigued by a "kerosene fridge". I've never heard of that but I bet it would be easy to convert to diesel and that intrigues me even more...



Did it have a pilot light or did it require electrical input?
No electric, just a slow steady flame.

Australia post WWII was full of 'em then got converted to LPG mostly for the smell factor.
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Old 06-09-2020, 02:27 PM   #17
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I don't have experience, surprised no one has mentioned it yet. Have you looked at a chest freezer and a controller to make it the temp you want? Light reading I've done suggests it's a more efficient setup than a normal residential upright fridge, and quite cheap.

And don't count out a 12 volt DC unit. I've found a couple quite cheap used. If it's something you'd consider keep an eye out for one. Prices also vary quite a bit by who's sticker in on the side. Worth a little shopping around.

Hopefully the RV fridge you have is less than about 40 years old. That's when they had pilots and no way to know if they'd blown out until you got a swig of warm beer. Anything newer will have electronic ignition and relight itself. Keep the chimney and burner clean, and they work just fine.
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Old 06-09-2020, 04:59 PM   #18
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Well, I went out and bought a 10 cu. ft. refrigerator/freezer. Now I am pondering mounting. I got some JB weld and angle brackets. I was thinking a few short screws in the sides of the fridge couldn't hurt it right? Thoughts? On top I'll have one on each side.Click image for larger version

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Old 06-09-2020, 06:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Yes straight DC compressor type is most efficient in North American market.
Hmmmm. There seem to be relatively few DC powered fridges on the market. But there are lots of cars using DC powered air conditioning now, and both fridges and cars commonly use R-134a refrigerant.. I wonder how much efficiency gain could be had if one takes an off-the-shelf full size residential refrigerator, removes its compressor, and fits an electric automotive A/C compressor in its place..?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rovobay View Post
Well, I went out and bought a 10 cu. ft. refrigerator/freezer. Now I am pondering mounting. I got some JB weld and angle brackets. I was thinking a few short screws in the sides of the fridge couldn't hurt it right? Thoughts? On top I'll have one on each side.
Figure out where the condenser coil is and don't put any screws there. Freezers often have the condenser coil concealed under the outer shell of the appliance, but fridges often have the condenser coil visible. If yours has a visible coil on the back or bottom then it's probably fair game to put screws through the cabinet just about anywhere. Make sure they're large enough, long enough, etc that they can't simply tear out of the sheet metal in case of high forces like a collision.
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Old 06-09-2020, 06:07 PM   #20
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Coil is visble on the bottom center. The fridge will be sandwiched between the counter and a wall that'll house my fuse box and other electrical components.
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