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Old 01-04-2018, 02:25 PM   #21
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there are radiant electric floor heaters.. the ones i looked at for home are 10 watts per square foot max.. I dont know if that makes enough heat to overcome the elements on a bus floor or not.. if you have good insulation under the heating element and then something like a laminate (not real hardwood) that might transmit the heat a little better then it might be enough.. I could see you easily using 200 sq feet in a long bus.. 2000 watts likely isnt going to warm you much on really cold days. but perhaps it makes you perceive being ewarmer with warm feet so you can use less of another heat source..

https://www.thermosoft.com/en-US/rad...ngineered-wood

-Christopher

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Old 01-04-2018, 03:38 PM   #22
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I was thinking about the floor heater just for the area where I most commonly sit or stand, but that wattage doesn't sound like it would work at all. I've never found them in the home stores.

Honestly it sounds like my mattress heater puts out more heat than those electric floor pads.
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Old 01-04-2018, 06:14 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miscrms View Post
The combined strength of all the original heaters at full rated output is something crazy like 200,000 btu, and yet the Skoolie sized Webasto is 47,000 btu as I recall. Something there doesn't seem to quite add up.
The reason it doesn't add up is that they didn't design it for the Webasto to heat the bus all on its own. It would have been designed for some combination of preheating the engine for easier starting, for accelerating the time it takes to get the engine and interior up to temperature, or for supplemental heat when it's so cold out that the engine doesn't produce enough waste heat to keep itself and the cabin warm.

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I have to agree with you there Steve and besides why wouldn't one keep that block warm and ready to go in case of emergency. That is the hole idea of the Webasto isn't it?
That totally makes sense in a northern climate like Ontario. In less severe climes the engine will start reliably without any kind of block heating. People in that kind of climate might reasonably view any heat spent in the engine block as heat wasted since they'll be able to start the engine regardless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
there are radiant electric floor heaters.. the ones i looked at for home are 10 watts per square foot max.. I dont know if that makes enough heat to overcome the elements on a bus floor or not.. if you have good insulation under the heating element and then something like a laminate (not real hardwood) that might transmit the heat a little better then it might be enough.. I could see you easily using 200 sq feet in a long bus.. 2000 watts likely isnt going to warm you much on really cold days. but perhaps it makes you perceive being ewarmer with warm feet so you can use less of another heat source..
Three years ago I did a winter heating experiment in my nearly-stock bus. I put 4500 watts of radiant baseboard heater in the aisle, plugged it in without a thermostat, and left it for the night. I left some sensors there too for logging the interior and exterior temperature. At the coldest point in the night the outdoor temperature was something like 14° F while the interior about 3 feet away from the heaters was about 54° F. The 4.5 kW took the edge off the cold but didn't achieve what I'd call comfort. I totally agree with your closing statements that 2 kW in-floor isn't going to warm much, but it'll be a nice supplement/addition to another source of heat.
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Old 01-04-2018, 06:52 PM   #24
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correct, webastos are sold as auxilliary heaters.. for exactly the reasons mentioned.. the most common option was a timer.. so it could be programmed to turn on at a certain time of day and run for x num ber of hours.. typically schools would program them to turn on an hour or two before the route.. so the engine would be warm and start easily... then the heater would remain on through route service so the heater cores would stay warm...

my red bus is a short bus. has the main driver heater, one rear heater, and the right side door heater.. I was out today.. single digits above zero.. engine was 179. (tstat temp).. got stuck in traffic.. 20 minutes of slow and go and my engine temp was already down to 150... imagine a full size bus with 2 right side heaters, a mid heater and a large rear.. it would be cold by then.
-Christopher
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Old 01-04-2018, 06:56 PM   #25
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I don't use a baseboard heater, but that is exactly how my heating system works. Daytime temps inside my bus seldom get above 60 and mornings are usually 40 degrees until I start adding heat.

So what if my favoite PJs is insulated coveralls.

I'd have been tickled pink if I could have woken up to 40 degree temps while working in AK.
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:08 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
. imagine a full size bus with 2 right side heaters, a mid heater and a large rear.. it would be cold by then.
-Christopher
Sounds like mine. Four passenger heaters ... two at the back and two down the length ... and a front heater/demister.

That's a lot of engine heat needed to run them.
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Old 01-06-2018, 03:45 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Thanks all! Really appreciate the quick feedback. Based on the inputs here I pulled the trigger on a used Webasto Scholastic from eBay. Will still have decisions to make about hookup, but my first concern was picking a burner unit.

Dick, really appreciate you weighing in with your experience. Your documentation of your build is a big asset to the group, and part of what helped me decide to go this route in the first place.

We probably won’t have time to do a full multi-zone setup, but I am starting to think maybe we should just run the heater lines through the floor in a very basic combined radiant / forced air system. We’re taking up the floor anyway, and the coolant has to get from back to front somehow...

Thanks again everyone for all the help.

Rob


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Hey Rob,

Did you get the Schoolastic from seller 1815rich ?

I just made an offer on the 2nd one that he is selling and am curious as to the condition etc of the one you bought.

Thanks
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:18 PM   #28
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Yeah, that’s the one. It looks like it was delivered today. I’ll try and post some pics when I get home.

Anyone have thoughts on what should be cleaned / replaced on a used reportedly working Webasto before installing?



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Old 01-11-2018, 01:29 PM   #29
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I'll put in a vote for making sure you can get replacement gaskets before disassembling anything. I was very excited that my bus came with an Espar (aka Eberspacher) coolant heater only to find that at just 14 years old service parts like the combustion chamber gasket are no longer available.
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:20 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miscrms View Post
Yeah, that’s the one. It looks like it was delivered today. I’ll try and post some pics when I get home.

Anyone have thoughts on what should be cleaned / replaced on a used reportedly working Webasto before installing?



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I pulled the trigger on the other one. Mine should be delivered next week.

I look forward to hearing how yours works out as well.
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:47 PM   #31
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Cool, hopefully between the two of us we can figure them out ;)

Still trying to make room in the workshop to get it unpacked, will get pics when I do.


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Old 01-14-2018, 11:06 PM   #32
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Coolant Heater (Webasto etc) Sizing

Case is a bit rusty here and there, but generally looks good inside at first look. Reset the inertial switch first thing to hopefully avoid hours of wondering why it won’t start once I get it up and going [emoji6]





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Old 01-14-2018, 11:08 PM   #33
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Coolant Heater (Webasto etc) Sizing

It was nice of him to remove the outlet hose and elbow and tuck it inside. Even the original hose clamps are there.

Need to look over the service manual, then plan to open it up and see how the insides look.

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Old 01-24-2018, 09:09 AM   #34
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It would be pretty easy to isolate the heater loop from the engine with a 1psi check valve in between the pressure side of the electric pump and the engine pump. It would stop hot water from going to the engine, but as soon as the engine started, coolant would flow through the loop like normal. Maybe put a ball valve in to bypass and heat the engine in case of extreme temperatures.
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Old 01-25-2018, 05:08 PM   #35
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I am working on one of those right now on a genuine "schoolie". Hope that cleaning the flame sensor and replacing the nozzle will get it running again. Also replacing the old timer with a new one.
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webasto 1.JPG   webasto 2.JPG   timer 1.JPG   timer 2.JPG  
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Old 01-26-2018, 12:16 PM   #36
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Has anyone found a source for the power/control connector?
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Old 01-26-2018, 01:38 PM   #37
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Very nice Chevy, let us know how it goes!

Steve, that’s a really good question! I was just going to trace it out and bypass the connector but it would be really nice to be able to use it. Probably something you can get from Webasto, I don’t think they’ve changed it in a long time on the skoolie model. May also be available from the bus manufacturer parts list?


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Old 01-26-2018, 07:48 PM   #38
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I got it back together and it is back to running good. Replaced the nozzle, cleaned the flame sensor, had to replace the overheat fuse and a relay and put a new exhaust pipe on it. My tester makes life a lot easier. Are you guys talking about the wiring harness/connector that plugs into the back of the cabinet? If so, I can call the place I get Webasto parts from and see whats available. There is a part number in my book but no picture so I don't know what all is included with it. If you need any help getting it running maybe I can help. I'm no expert on them but can usually figure them out.
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Old 01-26-2018, 10:48 PM   #39
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Awesome, nice work!

Yeah, the connector would be the one that plugs in outside the unit to connect it to the bus wiring. Would be great to find a source!


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Old 02-02-2018, 09:04 PM   #40
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I contacted the dealer in Utah that I get Webasto parts from and he can get that external wiring harness but it would take a few weeks to get in. The part number for it is 905815, its line item 174 in the scholastic parts catalog. The dealer is Bryson Sales, (800)743-9560, and the guy to talk to is Todd. Tell him Mike from West Jeff School District sent you and maybe he will remember the conversation.
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