Did I just Screw Myself with My A/C Installation?

TheArgobus · 10-26-2019, 10:41 AM

I recently installed a window air conditioner. Only after I had installed it, I realized the wind from driving the bus goes against the cooling fan. I sorta forgot about it until I posted my update on my thread and was reminded that this really could be a problem.

What do you guys think? Is it gonna be a serious problem? I won't need it until next June, so I've got time, but I thought about three solutions:

Install a plate cover that goes over the front grille to disrupt the airflow while driving (perhaps something that covers the sides or top as well to appropriately direct the air). Maybe like a proper vent cover that goes in a house
Disassemble the unit, find the positive wire for the fan, reroute that wire to a switch over the driver's seat, where I can turn the fan on or off depending on if I'm driving
Worst case scenario, the A/C will only be available when parked (which is still better than now)

I like the second option the most, as I could hook it up to a GPS/Arduino/Relay to automatically turn on/off depending if I'm moving, but I looked up the wiring diagram and it's a little confusing. Any thoughts?

cadillackid · 10-26-2019, 10:47 AM

did you verify if that unit is 2 motor? read my last response in your update thread.

1. was your bus really built with no dashboard heater or A/C? no A/C I can understand but not no heater.. or does it just not work..

2. many of those window units use a single motor for both inside and outside fan..

cadillackid · 10-26-2019, 10:49 AM

worst case you could possibly pull the blade off the outside fan and use an automotive electric fan for the condenser as a pusher.. you will have to also maintain 12 voklts for it when parked as well if you do that.. but it would keep the coils cool... not the best on the compressor since you are then blowing the hot air over the compressor.. but it should still last a while..

TheArgobus · 10-26-2019, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

did you verify if that unit is 2 motor? read my last response in your update thread.

1. was your bus really built with no dashboard heater or A/C? no A/C I can understand but not no heater.. or does it just not work..

2. many of those window units use a single motor for both inside and outside fan..

1. I can't remember the exact details, but after I removed the giant air conditioner in the back, I brought it in to an auto a/c repair shop to get the dash air working. They had it for a few days because they struggled to figure it out--the dash air control head was there but there was no wiring behind it, and I'm pretty sure the compressor is installed under the hood (but I'm no mechanic). They ended up quoting me ~$2,100 to get the dash air working again. I can't remember if that included the heater or fan as well, but I just remember telling them nah brah I'm good especially since I bought the bus for $2,500.

2. I haven't tinkered around with it yet, but because of my stupidity, I have the same exact model of A/C sitting in my backyard only without the refrigerant, so I can tinker with that one before I start working on the real one. I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

cadillackid · 10-26-2019, 11:09 AM

it was a Tie-in system. just put the rear unit back together and your dash air will work too... thats the easiest and works the best..

otherwise screw the shop..

go to the junkyard and pull the lines and condenser from an econoline van, the dash air wiring will still be there likely just have to reconnect it.. you could even poke around a junkyard van for wiring details.. compressor will already be there.. they just likely used an under bus condenser and rear ceiling evaporator..

bolt it up , test it, evac and recharge.. if that bus had rear air then the dashboard already has the evaporator..

musigenesis · 10-26-2019, 11:43 AM

Seems like you would want this thing covered when you're driving anyway, to keep bugs and dirt from accumulating in the radiator vanes.

Not to mention that it's ugly as hell.

Sehnsucht · 10-26-2019, 01:12 PM

Some people like that rough homemade look...

cadillackid · 10-26-2019, 01:33 PM

I really dont think it looks bad.. after all factory Fishbowl busses were built with what looked like a large window unit above the rear window from the factory...

I just want the OP to have it actually work

TheArgobus · 10-03-2020, 01:53 PM

I feel like I owe an update to this thread, especially for the lurkers who find it years from now.

I simply put a 1/4" piece of plywood in front using the same bolts as the angle/screen material, taking care to put holes in place for the lights.

And it works great. While driving, we got the inside temp down to a very comfortable level. It's powered by my battery bank, which is charged with three 300W solar panels on the roof, so yes it's a solar powered AC.

When we're parked, we have to remove the panel to let it vent properly, but we've only used it once while parked (otherwise we just open the windows).

The only issue, in my mind, is that it looks kind of funky, but now that the bus is painted and the panel is up, I think it's totally worth it.

Now, it is worth noting that on the record-breaking hot days in August (up to 110F), it did NOT cool the bus down while driving. Holy hell that was awful, even with the windows open. I see that as more of an issue of driving on the literal hottest day of Californian history, and I think we will impose an ops limit of "If it's hotter than 100F, then don't go driving" but that could've been resolved by leaving the stock A/C in there. But it was ugly on the inside and we're putting a bunk bed where it was located.

Anyway, I'm really happy with it!

cadillackid · 10-03-2020, 01:58 PM

why not just put the dashboard A/C back??? you dont have to lose the dashboard A/C because you took out the rear.. put in a new condensor in front of the radiator or put the old underskirt condenser back in and reconnect the dashboard parts and the compressor.. you dont need that rear ceiling unit to have the front part working

CHEESE_WAGON · 10-03-2020, 02:21 PM

Three major problems I see...

As you now know, air flow against the condenser while driving will trap heat in the condenser and overpressurize / overheat the unit, causing failure. You're really lucky that it cools at all while driving.

The unit is designed to blow condensor heat out the back (through the front in this orientation), which it cannot do with air rushing against the coil from outside at 60 mph). I think this is one reason smaller refrigerated trucks with the unit set up this way have such a high rate of failures, even though they are shielded and vented to help longevity.

One solution would be to remove the original condenser fan blades, wiring a suitable size fan to reverse condenser heat exhaust by pulling air in, with a V-shaped insert just behind the the coil to push the heat out the side vents instead of against the evaporator and back inside the bus, which is what I suspect is currently happening.

I can almost guarantee you will have leakage in this area whenever running the unit while driving due to the condensate drain blowing back inside the unit / walls AND rainwater whether driving or not. Not much you can do about it either.

Also, when this unit fails, what are you going to do when you can't find the same size unit to replace it?

I would tell anyone with this idea to remove a rear window and hang it out that hole to avoid these problems.

TheArgobus · 10-03-2020, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

why not just put the dashboard A/C back??? you dont have to lose the dashboard A/C because you took out the rear.. put in a new condensor in front of the radiator or put the old underskirt condenser back in and reconnect the dashboard parts and the compressor.. you dont need that rear ceiling unit to have the front part working

To be totally honest, I wish I had just left that unit in there and untouched (take note, lurkers). But in my overly enthusiastic optimism when I bought the bus, I did quite a bit of demolition and all I have left is whatever's under the hood. There are no dash controls or control head (the controller for the rear unit was an added dial to the bottom left of the steering wheel, and it's gone), and the refrigerant pipes are capped near the engine.

I may know conceptually how an air conditioner works (with the compressor, evaporator, and blower) but I lack any practical knowledge of how to repair or connect things back together. I could bring it in to a shop, but they quoted me ~$2,500 to get the dash air working again, and I'm not too interested in that. I also lack the tools, know-how, and most importantly time to learn and repair.

So basically I'm in a position where I have a working air conditioner right now and I'm quite happy with it. But if it fails I can either install a new identical one, or pay the money to get the dash air working again. Or just pull it out and patch up the hole and just go without AC, but my passengers aren't too keen on that one.

cadillackid · 10-03-2020, 05:52 PM

so your dashboard didnt have heat , A/C from the van? normally there is a regular van control head and evaporator core in the dash.. for the heater and defroster and usually A/C in the front.. its rare to see them build one where the van portion was heat only.. or did you yank out the dashboard heaters and A/C along with the rear system?

CHEESE_WAGON · 10-03-2020, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheArgobus

To be totally honest, I wish I had just left that unit in there and untouched (take note, lurkers).

Many an identical thread on here... And there is a thread also that specifically tells people not to mess with a factory A/C unit, especially if functional. One member ripped out a perfectly good system just because they didn't like A/C, only to find they could not install the accessory drive serpentine belt without the A/C compressor installed.

There are at least three things you should never screw with on a bus, and that is one of them, I'm afraid. And I'm also afraid that you won't be the last to post something like this. You certainly aren't the first.

cadillackid · 10-03-2020, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

Many an identical thread on here... And there is a thread also that specifically tells people not to mess with a factory A/C unit, especially if functional. One member ripped out a perfectly good system just because they didn't like A/C, only to find they could not install the accessory drive serpentine belt without the A/C compressor installed.

There are at least three things you should never screw with on a bus, and that is one of them, I'm afraid. And I'm also afraid that you won't be the last to post something like this. You certainly aren't the first.

theres good reason for taking out the A/C sometimes.. many times people dont need 2 systems anymore.. esp if the bus is insulated solidly you only need 1 to cool the front half driving down the road.. and with a cuple fans can cool the rest..

other people chase nice weather or only are in cool weather.. I got 2 fully working systems from someone who bought a bus in arizona because it was rust free and mountain capable.. they used the A/C to get the bus to my house where I helped them pull it out.. all of it.. then they drove at night to their destination in vermont.. where the plans for the bus were mainly travel from vermont to canada, a work gig in the summer at niagra and then a ski thing someplace else.. possibly in maine or canada.. anyway they were going to put a minisplit in for when they are parked and the bus planned very little travel ... it worked out for them fine..

sometimes the factory A/C doesnt work and its in really bad shape.. if it was a northern bus that hapened to be A/Cd theres a good chance the fittings and coils will be ate-up and leaky from road salt..

on the other hand I helped remove a system from a bus that was going to cool with a camper A/C.. and their rude awakening came with the first trip across the plains states in june with afternoon sun..

they came begging for the system to be put back in and restored. I had already installed the evaporator in another bus and the condenser was in my garage with someone driving 300 miles to get it.. they essentially payed that person's fuel, a hotel room, dinner, and a bit extra to "go away".. paid me for time and material to re-install the system, bought me another evaporator to make up for me cutting holes in my bus and installing it only to take it back... in essence a costly lesson for them.. by some stroke of luck i had thrown all the hoses in a corner of my garage complely unmolested, and stuffed the wiring in a drawer(always save wires!)..

its partly what prompted me to write that thread on whichever part of the forum...

I dont fault anyone for doing it.. I just want people to think about it..

and it is possible to restore them or partially restore them..

ive helped out with more than pne van cutaway where we removed the rear system and then made the dashboard A/C work just like if it had been in a standard cargo van.. and those dash airs are typically pretty powerful.. very well enough to cool the front cab and part of an insulated conversion.. thats something ai suggest for most esp since space is limited underneath and on the ceiling of a short van cutaway bus..

roach711 · 10-03-2020, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cadillackid

why not just put the dashboard A/C back??? you dont have to lose the dashboard A/C because you took out the rear.. put in a new condensor in front of the radiator or put the old underskirt condenser back in and reconnect the dashboard parts and the compressor.. you dont need that rear ceiling unit to have the front part working

That's what I did on our bus. Once the rear AC unit was gone I installed a new condenser coil in front of the radiator, a few hoses and a new dryer then recharged it. I also had to re-connect some of the factory wiring that had been re-routed to the add-on control panel installed by Eldorado.

We don't camp in really hot weather so the dash air works fine for us.

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