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Old 10-22-2020, 04:10 PM   #1
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Fuel source for diesel heater

Hi guys

I'm just about to finish the installation of our diesel heater and I need a verification on tapping on to the engine supply line. In addition to all the electrical connections, there seem to be two fuel connections on the top of the fuel tank. One is a flexible 3/8" id line and the other is a smaller (1/4"?) metal line that connects immediately to a square-shaped device before connecting to a small flexible hose.

I'm attaching a photo so you can see what I'm talking about.

My assumption has been that the larger hose is the feed and the smaller one is the return. Can anyone verify that for me?

BTW, it's on a 2004 Blue Bird TC2000 with the 5.9 Cummins.

Thanks
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Old 10-22-2020, 08:00 PM   #2
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DONT tap into the existing fuel lines for your heater... the heater will either suck the prime dry out of your supply line for the engine.. or your engine will suck the prime dry from the heater / suck air..



if your tank doesnt have an available fitting, then drill a hole in the tank and use the quick fitting that the heater kit comes with and stab a new pickup down.. be sure to be careful when choosing a spot for the new hole that it doesnt interfere with the fuel gauge float or other pickups..



a suggestion is to have the heater fuel pickup a couple inches above the engine pickup.. so a heater left on accidentilly will not run your bus so far out of fuel that it cant be driven to a station.. .



when I drilled the hole in mine i used a stepper bit that pulls all of its shavings outware and I had a shop VAC sucking the whole time around the hole so I didnt put debris down in my tank..
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Old 10-23-2020, 08:57 AM   #3
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Thanks cadillackid. I appreciate your advice as usual. I'll definitely take your suggestions into consideration.
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Old 10-23-2020, 09:55 AM   #4
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Definitely have a dedicated pickup for your heater.

I don't have one for my generator. So I had to put check valves in the fuel line so as to not suck the other's fuel system dry. I have to be careful so as not to run the tank empty, or I'll be screwed. That's something I just keep in mind, and I don't worry about it, as I know how to bleed my fuel system if the inevitable does happen. And it will happen eventually.
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Old 10-23-2020, 10:06 AM   #5
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I used the 10L tank came with our diesel heater.. mounted it on the back wall in the garage, behind the outboard motor for the boat.

It lasts surprisingly long on 10l and I didn't want to tap our main tank.

I figure if I run low on diesel in a pinch I have 10 litres I can suck out and maybe make it to a filling station

likewise if I am parked and need to refill the heater tank and don't want to go get more I can easily suck some out of the bus and fill the heater

just how we do it
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Old 10-23-2020, 10:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RolesvilleMarina View Post
I used the 10L tank came with our diesel heater.. mounted it on the back wall in the garage, behind the outboard motor for the boat.

It lasts surprisingly long on 10l and I didn't want to tap our main tank.

I figure if I run low on diesel in a pinch I have 10 litres I can suck out and maybe make it to a filling station

likewise if I am parked and need to refill the heater tank and don't want to go get more I can easily suck some out of the bus and fill the heater

just how we do it
Yeah, we do it the same way. That 10 liters lasts a few/several nights and we've got a 5 gal. diesel jug to top it off when necessary, then refill when we get into town.
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Old 10-23-2020, 02:36 PM   #7
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That’s neat having a separate tank!! Neither of my heaters came with a tank. Love that idea esp if you fill it every time you fill the bus you are right, always have a couple gallons of reserve
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Old 10-24-2020, 07:07 AM   #8
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Odd... the kits come with the plastic flat 10l tank usually

I did find them for sale on amazon for about $30 though

I need to figure out how to host pics again on this site

then I can show ours
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Old 10-24-2020, 07:34 AM   #9
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both of my heaters are coolant units so it may be that they didnt come with.. one is a real webasto i got back in 2016 from a store lqiuidating. and the other is a 12kw chinese unit i got this year..



it could be only opne or two companies actually manufacture the air heaters and include a tank so most all the sellers show up with them.



I thought about an air heater in my DEV bus but seeing as how it lacks glowplugs and really would have a bad time starting if its below 0f so I wanted a way to warm up the engine and the heater loops both.. my red bus has glowplugs and ive started it at -10f with pretty much ease.. when I travel I cant always count on being able to plug in the block heater so having an alternative source to pre-warm the engine is a must.. while I generally like to be in places where id be on the A/C, it seems like at least once i end up someplace pretty far north in the dead of winter.. at -10f i'd never be able to fire that DT360 and I wont use ether unless it was a life / death scenerio..



for a 12kw heater though 10 liters isnt going to last very long.. on ful blast it uses up to 3 liters per hour .. grsanted it doesnt necessarilt run on high all the time. but i have tested with the windows down (for testing) in 40 degree weather and I can turn on enough fans inside to keep the heater on full blast.. I was attemptingto simulate what it might be like parked in 0f weather .. so I cracked open windows for heat loss..



Fuel capacity in both of my main drivers is an issue being shorties I have either 30 or 35 gallon tanks.. I havent measured the dimensions and navistar when i called them said it shows 2 different tanks for my VINs.. a 30 and a 35.. in other words on trips I stop for fuel a lot.. add the diesel heaters and I get fuel more..


add winter means i never want to be below 1/2 tank means I get fuel a really lot..



I dont have a really good place to add a second fuel tank on the shorties.. at least not for driving.. im not too keen on putting a fuel tank behind the axle. a rear end collision with a car almosrt always ends up in the car going under the bus.. while diesel fuel isnt near as flammable as gasoline.. it can and will burn..



-Christopher
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Old 10-24-2020, 10:45 AM   #10
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Our unit did come with the 10l tank but since we already have a jerry can mounted on the back with gasoline for our generator (also mounted on the back), I didn't want to have to find a way to carry another can with diesel. I did briefly consider trying to mount the heater fuel tank next to our main tank so I could siphon fuel into the heater tank, but that would be a pain and I'd have to then store a stinky siphon hose.

Now if I traded in my genny for a diesel one... Hmm...
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Old 10-24-2020, 06:09 PM   #11
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tapping into your main fuel tank really is not that hard nor expensive
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Old 10-24-2020, 08:40 PM   #12
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See if your bus's tank has a spare port on the top that you can use for the heater's supply; mine had an unused 1/2" port, so I soldered a stainless 3/8" tube to a 1/2" brass reducer to give me a feed from it for my two Chinese diesel air heaters. From the bus's tank a 3/8" hose goes to two Amarine gear pumps, one for each heater, that push fuel to the heaters' 10-liter day tanks. This way the heaters' own clicky pumps don't have to pull fuel half a mile from the bus's tank, and the heaters' own pumps are below their day tanks so they always have a gravity feed. Easy! And yes, the heaters' pickup tube in the bus's tank is 4" shorter than the engine's pickup tube.

John
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Old 10-28-2020, 03:27 PM   #13
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I’ll confirm the advice here from the other side...
I tee’d off the main fuel line and it sucks the fuel lines dry from the heater when I run the bus so it’s a nightmare. Was fine when I was stationary but not so much anymore. Lesson learned.
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Old 10-28-2020, 11:20 PM   #14
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We ran our new 5k chinese diesel air heater all night and burned about 5l. Pretty impressive how little it uses.
Having an air tight space will be a huge heat saver compared to having a window open. But it was only 30 degrees. Not zero.
It came with a 10l wall mount container off Amazon. We be bring a 6 gallon can with to fill up at the station since our shortie is gas.
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Old 10-29-2020, 02:26 AM   #15
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There are gas-fueled equivalents.

Been looking for hydronic-only gas-fueled ones. . .
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Old 10-29-2020, 03:38 AM   #16
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A thought about using the fuel source for the engine for running a diesel fired heater. When I installed a diesel generator (Onan 6.5 kw) in my bus, I also installed a 20 gallon fuel tank for the generator. When I had the engine replaced I had a T fitting installed and capped at the output of the fuel filter for use to fill the generator tank from the main tank as backup. The fuel transfer system uses a solenoid valve and an electric fuel pump in the design. The transfer system will monitor fuel levels in both tanks to prevent overfill of the generator tank, and complete draining of the main fuel tank. I believe that the net result of running the transfer system with the bus running will be a little extra fuel flow through the filter. The fuel pump has a built in check valve so that the engine cannot pull fuel from the generator tank. The generator tank also has a filler accessible from the generator compartment, allowing it to be filled separately. The idea is that I could initiate fuel transfer about 15 minutes before a fuel stop and then only need to fill the main tank at a truck stop or gas station. The transfer system does not move fuel at a high rate.
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Old 10-29-2020, 05:11 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flattracker View Post
A thought about using the fuel source for the engine for running a diesel fired heater. When I installed a diesel generator (Onan 6.5 kw) in my bus, I also installed a 20 gallon fuel tank for the generator. When I had the engine replaced I had a T fitting installed and capped at the output of the fuel filter for use to fill the generator tank from the main tank as backup. The fuel transfer system uses a solenoid valve and an electric fuel pump in the design. The transfer system will monitor fuel levels in both tanks to prevent overfill of the generator tank, and complete draining of the main fuel tank. I believe that the net result of running the transfer system with the bus running will be a little extra fuel flow through the filter. The fuel pump has a built in check valve so that the engine cannot pull fuel from the generator tank. The generator tank also has a filler accessible from the generator compartment, allowing it to be filled separately. The idea is that I could initiate fuel transfer about 15 minutes before a fuel stop and then only need to fill the main tank at a truck stop or gas station. The transfer system does not move fuel at a high rate.
Interesting. I didnt realize that.
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Old 10-29-2020, 08:07 AM   #18
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The top of my tank has 2 1" diameter brass plugs in it. I successfully got one off however I am haveing a hell of a time getting the supplied fuel pickup tube from my 5kw chinese diesel heater to fit in there.

Does anyone have any recommendations for a 1" fitting that could screw into the existing tank tap? I think it makes little to no sense to be drilling new holes when I can use one of the factory openings.
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:02 AM   #19
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What threads are you working with? If the heater pickup and the tank plug are both pipe threads you should be able to find an adapter to make it work. I know my local napa has them in a cabinet, yours might too.
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Old 10-30-2020, 01:20 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
both of my heaters are coolant units so it may be that they didnt come with.. one is a real webasto i got back in 2016 from a store lqiuidating. and the other is a 12kw chinese unit i got this year..



it could be only opne or two companies actually manufacture the air heaters and include a tank so most all the sellers show up with them.



I thought about an air heater in my DEV bus but seeing as how it lacks glowplugs and really would have a bad time starting if its below 0f so I wanted a way to warm up the engine and the heater loops both.. my red bus has glowplugs and ive started it at -10f with pretty much ease.. when I travel I cant always count on being able to plug in the block heater so having an alternative source to pre-warm the engine is a must.. while I generally like to be in places where id be on the A/C, it seems like at least once i end up someplace pretty far north in the dead of winter.. at -10f i'd never be able to fire that DT360 and I wont use ether unless it was a life / death scenerio..



for a 12kw heater though 10 liters isnt going to last very long.. on ful blast it uses up to 3 liters per hour .. grsanted it doesnt necessarilt run on high all the time. but i have tested with the windows down (for testing) in 40 degree weather and I can turn on enough fans inside to keep the heater on full blast.. I was attemptingto simulate what it might be like parked in 0f weather .. so I cracked open windows for heat loss..



Fuel capacity in both of my main drivers is an issue being shorties I have either 30 or 35 gallon tanks.. I havent measured the dimensions and navistar when i called them said it shows 2 different tanks for my VINs.. a 30 and a 35.. in other words on trips I stop for fuel a lot.. add the diesel heaters and I get fuel more..


add winter means i never want to be below 1/2 tank means I get fuel a really lot..



I dont have a really good place to add a second fuel tank on the shorties.. at least not for driving.. im not too keen on putting a fuel tank behind the axle. a rear end collision with a car almosrt always ends up in the car going under the bus.. while diesel fuel isnt near as flammable as gasoline.. it can and will burn..



-Christopher

The mid engine Crown buses have the fuel tank behind the rear axle(s) and a trunk behind the fuel tank. I think if you have a few feet or more between the rear bumper and a fuel tank, you would be OK, especially if the tank is mounted high under the floor.
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