Insurance Vs wood heaters?

[Bus'n it]

I am pondering the thought of a mini wood burner in my build but not sure if this would become an insurable issue. Anyone have experience with Good Sam before I call them?

[Tdi-337]

Good sam won't insure a bus with a wood burning stove. We just insured ours with them but we haven't began our conversation yet, because of this we will be going with a mini split for now.

[shaymcquaid]

It’s antecdotal but it seems no insurer will. Roof DECKS are also out.��

[Tdi-337]

Good to know thanks!

[musigenesis]

Allstate is definitely NO on wood stoves and roof decks.

[dwood443]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Allstate is definitely NO on wood stoves and roof decks.

I don't see any information in my policy stating a wood stove is not allowed. How would you know they were not allowed other than a forum like this? I would not bother to ask my agent either.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by dwood443

I don't see any information in my policy stating a wood stove is not allowed. How would you know they were not allowed other than a forum like this? I would not bother to ask my agent either.

I bothered to ask my agent. Your policy also does not expressly disallow having a nuclear reactor aboard.

[dwood443]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

I bothered to ask my agent. Your policy also does not expressly disallow having a nuclear reactor aboard.

I understand and if I had more money invested in my build (it is starting to build up) I would probably be more concerned about coverage.

Although a nuclear reactor aboard would improve my mileage considerably.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by dwood443

I understand and if I had more money invested in my build (it is starting to build up) I would probably be more concerned about coverage.

Although a nuclear reactor aboard would improve my mileage considerably.

Whew, do I ever understand about the build up.

I'm reading through my policy for the first time (genius, I know) and I think the wood stove/roof deck thing would be covered here:

When this policy has been in effect for 60 days or more, or if it is a renewal with us, we may cancel this policy for one or more of the following reasons:

4. there has been a substantial change or increase in hazard in the risk we originally accepted;

Amusingly, the document also has this under "Exclusions":

8. bodily injury or property damage which would also be covered under nuclear energy liability insurance. This applies even if the limits of that insurance are exhausted.

5. loss due to radioactive contamination.

So in a sense, the policy really does exclude onboard nuclear reactors, my bad.

[Rucker]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Whew, do I ever understand about the build up.

I'm reading through my policy for the first time (genius, I know) and I think the wood stove/roof deck thing would be covered here:



Amusingly, the document also has this under "Exclusions":



So in a sense, the policy really does exclude onboard nuclear reactors, my bad.

And here I was trying to figure out where to store that nuclear waste.....

[JackE]

Originally Posted by Rucker

And here I was trying to figure out where to store that nuclear waste.....

Just dump it in the composting toilet. That seems to make it OK to put human waste into regular 'ol gas station dumpsters.....

[Rucker]

Originally Posted by JackE

Just dump it in the composting toilet. That seems to make it OK to put human waste into regular 'ol gas station dumpsters.....

That's a great idea! My plan A was to put a sign next to my compost bin in the back yard 'do not use for 24,100 years'.

[Oscar1]

Originally Posted by JackE

Just dump it in the composting toilet. That seems to make it OK to put human waste into regular 'ol gas station dumpsters.....

Haha just saw this one! Yep that's a big peev for me too. "Look at me I'm saving the world by crapping in a plastic bag"
Composting and creating a huge bio hazard for the person that has to handle that garbage is not the same thing.

[rossvtaylor]

We didn't ask our agent...they asked us. All three of the companies we've used (Progressive, Farm Bureau, and National General) asked specifically if any of our rigs had either a roof deck or a wood stove. They said they won't insure those which do. We didn't ask about nuclear reactors or hazmat poop, though...

[Oscar1]

Originally Posted by rossvtaylor

We didn't ask our agent...they asked us. All three of the companies we've used (Progressive, Farm Bureau, and National General) asked specifically if any of our rigs had either a roof deck or a wood stove. They said they won't insure those which do. We didn't ask about nuclear reactors or hazmat poop, though...

Well this is a huge bummer for me right now. Apparently Santa thought I was on the good boy list this year and put a Little Cod under the tree. Major decisions to be made.

[Beirdo]

Well, since you are in BC, your insurance rules are almost certain to be different than here in the USA. You probably need BC-specific insurance advice on this matter, which most of us wouldn't be able to give.

You may have to actually talk to the insurance agent(s).

[cntryby]

If they don't ask... don't tell.

While they may raise your premiums, I'm not sure they can legally deny coverage. They may say they will, but if challenged, they have to insure you with adjusted rates from an NAIC recognized actuary.


The problem is, rates go up and you have to spend money to even make the company take your money. Additionally, they will write in a clause excluding any claim related to the wood stove in any manner, even if it's not fire. They will then probably want to inspect the RV and then your rates will climb for every little thing not being used as the manufacture recommends.



They will still have to pay out for any other claim.


All this applies to solar as well. Which can be even worse. Lets say you have a hail storm and loose all your roof top panels. If they weren't installed in the recommended location and the recommended angle of the manufacture, your claim will probably be denied.

The battery systems are a whole can of worms on their own.

Don't ask, don't tell.

BUT
Don't expect insurance to pay out if you leave the door open on the wood stove and you burn down your bus. Don't expect them to pay if you don't know the difference between green wood and dry, pine and oak and build up creosote in your pipe and burn your bus down.
Same for solar, if you don't configure you system right and it burns down the bus, why should they pay?

I would think insurance on a skoolie would be just so you could travel around legally and cover your liability in a fender bender. If a toaster or something equivalent melts down due to internal failure, coverage for that would just be a bonus.



Used in this manner, "don't ask don't tell" may help keep you rates down. We just have to be realistic about how we use that insurance.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by cntryby

If they don't ask... don't tell.

While they may raise your premiums, I'm not sure they can legally deny coverage. They may say they will, but if challenged, they have to insure you with adjusted rates from an NAIC recognized actuary.


The problem is, rates go up and you have to spend money to even make the company take your money. Additionally, they will write in a clause excluding any claim related to the wood stove in any manner, even if it's not fire. They will then probably want to inspect the RV and then your rates will climb for every little thing not being used as the manufacture recommends.



They will still have to pay out for any other claim.


All this applies to solar as well. Which can be even worse. Lets say you have a hail storm and loose all your roof top panels. If they weren't installed in the recommended location and the recommended angle of the manufacture, your claim will probably be denied.

The battery systems are a whole can of worms on their own.

Don't ask, don't tell.

BUT
Don't expect insurance to pay out if you leave the door open on the wood stove and you burn down your bus. Don't expect them to pay if you don't know the difference between green wood and dry, pine and oak and build up creosote in your pipe and burn your bus down.
Same for solar, if you don't configure you system right and it burns down the bus, why should they pay?

I would think insurance on a skoolie would be just so you could travel around legally and cover your liability in a fender bender. If a toaster or something equivalent melts down due to internal failure, coverage for that would just be a bonus.



Used in this manner, "don't ask don't tell" may help keep you rates down. We just have to be realistic about how we use that insurance.

how does that differ from a homeowners policy when sopmeone burns their house down due to a fireplace? buddy of mine who builds fireplaces just worked on such a situation where the homeowner never knew they were supposed to get their chimney swept.. chimney fire in a prefab fireplace that spread to the chaseway.. insurance paid out well enough he is building them a stone fireplace in place of the original prefab.. purely negligent? or an accident?



I do pay extra on my homeoners policy because I have a wood-burning fireplace in my house.. they do give me a discount each year when i turn in a receipt from a Chimney cleaning and fireplace inspection. nowhere does it spell out any typer of requirement for such nor does it have any clause that being careless (like leaving the glass doors open and going to bed) voids the policy...



I definiterly can see why they would spell out wood stoves and roof decks in an RV.. the obvious reason of some dim-wit would remove all his bus heaters then try to burn a fire going down the road.. and roof deck peeps would get loaded on bud light and fall off.. or worse try to ride around on it like a double-decker bus with no sides..

[cntryby]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

how does that differ from a homeowners policy when sopmeone burns their house down due to a fir ?

Keep in mind, I said "don't ask, don't tell. If you file a claim for a fire caused by your actions on a non-disclosed wood stove, you'll be lucky if they pay out at all, and even luckier if you can ever get insurance on an RV again and if you do the rates will be outrageous.


The difference is because there is building codes and "typical" or "common" installations for stationary buildings, hence "homeowner policy". These policies usually ask about heat source. All the stats for those are readily available and premiums are adjusted accordingly.

Most everything done to a bus conversion isn't regulated in any way. Even if we follow the IBC codes for stationary structures, none of them have been tested for mobile applications.

Motor home or RV coverage rates are based on industry standards. I would be shocked if actuarial assessments have ever been performed on a wood stove in an RV. To many variables. And manufactures don't install them.


I'm not saying I agree with it at all, that's just the way it is.

We may get lucky and get a payout for fire caused by our stupidity... once. At home your rates will go up. In an RV, you'll get cancelled and then all other companies will see you've filed a claim and your rates will go wayyyy up.

If we want to be legal for driving we need insurance, if we want to have reasonable prices we must be willing to take on some of the responsibility ourselves.

[rossvtaylor]

It would be nice if they could segregate the driving risks from the other non-driving risks. We need liability insurance to legally drive, in the even we hit someone else, and that makes total sense. But having a wood stove or deck does nothing to increase our driving risk...and I am referring to the collision risk, not the risk of a fire or someone on the deck while moving. I'd gladly buy a collision-liability-only policy and take the risk of a wood stove. In our case, our vehicles have liability coverage only and we're "self insured" (accepting the risk) for damage. And...even with liability coverage only...our insurers wouldn't accept a wood stove.


And...now that I've written that... I guess the bus filling with smoke while driving would increase the collision risk. It may be harder to separate those risks than I first thought. Rule #1...don't do dumb things, I guess.