Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-12-2017, 08:26 AM   #1
Bus Geek
 
Brewerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Just started researching appliances...

In trying to research electrical, I need to know what my elctrical load will be. I'm guessing the big power users are the same in a bus as a house.

1) HVAC
2) Cooking
3) Hot water

I'd like to make everything single fuel and since the bus is already diesel... Cooking, hot water, and heat from diesel seems to be easy enough to find. AC can run on propane but I'm not finding much in the way of diesel powered fridges. There are the units that the reefer trucks use but I think those are in the neighborhood of $5k+ new. Only checked one site and it looked to be $5-9k. Ouch!!! That ain't happening. Might also be overkill. I'm not trying to keep the bus at 35°F. Running the bus at 72° certainly wouldn't tax the system tho.

While ignoring the single fuel part, has anyone looked at these?

Are they gimmicky? Expensive in comparison to individual piece? Etc. I just randomly picked that one. I've seen then with dishwashers, etc. I don't need a dishwasher on a bus.

Back to heat, I like the looks and idea of a wood stove but I'm just not sure of the practicality of it. When it's -7°F outside and 3am, I'm not going to want to go find an arm load of sticks. Having a chimney punched thru the ceiling and a 60mph wind blowing ashes out of the fire box doesn't sound all that great either. If I get one, I want one that can be cooked on/in. Maybe a tall vertical like this?

Brewerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2017, 09:10 PM   #2
Bus Nut
 
miltruckman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lebanon, IN
Posts: 272
Year: 1998
Chassis: TC 2000 bluebird
Engine: 5.9 cummins
Rated Cap: 66
Lehmans.com sells a Dometic Kerosene refrigerator.

They also have many other items for self sufficient living.

Bill
miltruckman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2017, 09:23 PM   #3
Bus Nut
 
miltruckman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lebanon, IN
Posts: 272
Year: 1998
Chassis: TC 2000 bluebird
Engine: 5.9 cummins
Rated Cap: 66
I too have been keeping with the single fuel concept as much as possible. Everything in my bus is diesel or electric. I went with an inductive burner for the stove top and a convection oven/microwave for cooking. Diesel and electric for the hot water heater. Two seperate Diesel furnaces for heat. To power it all I installed 1kw of solar, a 850ah battery bank, and I have yet to install the 10k diesel generator. If I can fit it in. Its pretty large and 600 more lbs.

Bill
miltruckman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2017, 09:58 PM   #4
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
I've been harping on that single fuel idea for a long time. I have an additional problem because this bus is actually a 26' van. Basically I reasoned that an extra large fuel tank mounted under the skirt would deal with the diesel use while boondocking. Come to find out diesel appliances are really, really expensive. Also I got to calculating how much fuel draw I'd have each and every day during the winter, times the cost of fuel, and it didn't work out so well financially just based on fuel costs. Not only are the appliances at a high cost, but daily fuel costs are significant during the winter.

I keep talking myself out of every energy use plan I come up with, always returning to the minimalist approach. Always go the simplest route. Buy a 12 volt TV. Do they make diesel TVs? I am going to need AC is I head south, and I've already been north.
__________________
Robin
Nobody's Business
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2017, 10:38 PM   #5
Bus Crazy
 
turf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,356
Year: 1993
Coachwork: bluebird
Engine: 5.9 Cummins, Allison AT1545
Rated Cap: 2
my rig is diesel/electric

diesel generator that runs
2 - 240v heaters
2 - 120v air conditioners 15k btu
1 - 240v oven/stove
1 - 120v battery charger

12v battery bank runs
1 water pump
1 12v refrigerator
lights/entertainment
heater fan

the heat is from a 30k btu diesel air heater

i doubt i spent 3 weeks in the bus last year, hour meter on the gen was 80 hours for the year.

i just added a transfer switch and a shore line. this year i'll be able to plug in when its available.
__________________
.
Turfmobile Build Thread
turf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 07:04 AM   #6
Bus Crazy
 
JDOnTheGo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: The West
Posts: 1,210
Year: 1998
Coachwork: MCI
Chassis: 102 EL3
Engine: DD 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob View Post
Back to heat, I like the looks and idea of a wood stove but I'm just not sure of the practicality of it.
I suspect every location around the country is different and I have no idea where you plan to be when it is cold so this is only food for thought.

Many of the places in the west either don't allow gathering wood or it is fairly well picked over. Obviously, boondocking in the forest is different than staying at a forest service campground. In any case, wood is not always readily available (or only available for purchase). Of course, many of us (in the west) head south when it get's cold and there is very little firewood available in the warm spots (think AZ desert).
__________________
JD - Full timer out west
Missy - 1998 MCI 102-EL3 - 1.7kW Solar - 10kWh Lithium
My Adventures & Build
JDOnTheGo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 07:16 AM   #7
Bus Geek
 
Brewerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin97396 View Post
I've been harping on that single fuel idea for a long time. I have an additional problem because this bus is actually a 26' van. Basically I reasoned that an extra large fuel tank mounted under the skirt would deal with the diesel use while boondocking. Come to find out diesel appliances are really, really expensive. Also I got to calculating how much fuel draw I'd have each and every day during the winter, times the cost of fuel, and it didn't work out so well financially just based on fuel costs. Not only are the appliances at a high cost, but daily fuel costs are significant during the winter.

I keep talking myself out of every energy use plan I come up with, always returning to the minimalist approach. Always go the simplest route. Buy a 12 volt TV. Do they make diesel TVs? I am going to need AC is I head south, and I've already been north.
You need a wood stove!! 26' van can't be hard to heat. Maybe hard to keep heated but that's a different issue.

A 10KW genny??? Are you using that because you HAVE it or because you NEED it? I've no idea what my useage will be but that sounds like a lot. I HAVE a 5500W gasoline genny that I'm going to use short term but again would like to switch to a single fuel.

Now if I'm drinking 30 gallons a day and it costs 4x for the appliances, then I'll just suck it up and buy some 40 lb propane tanks and hide them in a storage locker somewhere.
Brewerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 07:21 AM   #8
Bus Geek
 
Brewerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by turf View Post
my rig is diesel/electric

diesel generator that runs
2 - 240v heaters
2 - 120v air conditioners 15k btu
1 - 240v oven/stove
1 - 120v battery charger

12v battery bank runs
1 water pump
1 12v refrigerator
lights/entertainment
heater fan

the heat is from a 30k btu diesel air heater
I'm lost. I saw some 240v stuff when looking at truck stuff but 1) I assumed it was TRUCK stuff (like semi truck stuff) 2) some weird European system. So, why is your heat and stove 240v? Why is your heat 240v and diesel to air? Is the 240v the ignitor? Thermostat and controller can run on 24v probably even 12v. Why is the fridge 12v instead of 240 or 120?
Brewerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 07:46 AM   #9
Bus Geek
 
Brewerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDOnTheGo View Post
I suspect every location around the country is different and I have no idea where you plan to be when it is cold so this is only food for thought.

Many of the places in the west either don't allow gathering wood or it is fairly well picked over. Obviously, boondocking in the forest is different than staying at a forest service campground. In any case, wood is not always readily available (or only available for purchase). Of course, many of us (in the west) head south when it get's cold and there is very little firewood available in the warm spots (think AZ desert).
I'm likely assbackwards from everyone else including the gf. I head north in the summer and further north in the winter. As long as it isn't bitter cold (negative F) I'm good.

I like the palley idea. I've been gathering them now and again from work. Was going to use those on the bus but think I'll go with prettier stuff. Anywho, you can't go far without passing a dumpster with a coulpe of pallets next to it. I'm not likely to spend months someplace that doesn't have trees anyway. AZ and the desert is nice but only for a short visit. I'll take the redwoods over that any day of the week.
Brewerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 08:39 AM   #10
Bus Crazy
 
turf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,356
Year: 1993
Coachwork: bluebird
Engine: 5.9 Cummins, Allison AT1545
Rated Cap: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob View Post
I'm lost. I saw some 240v stuff when looking at truck stuff but 1) I assumed it was TRUCK stuff (like semi truck stuff) 2) some weird European system. So, why is your heat and stove 240v? Why is your heat 240v and diesel to air? Is the 240v the ignitor? Thermostat and controller can run on 24v probably even 12v. Why is the fridge 12v instead of 240 or 120?
the bus came with the diesel generator (12kw). it has 2 crude 240v electric heaters that came with it too. it was a bookmobile and the librarian needed heat while parked. in the conversion to rv, installed a home size stove/oven that also plugs into the 240v gen wiring.

now when i need heat, i no longer have to run the generator. the primary heat comes from a diesel heater that i installed. it starts and blows off of the 12v house battery circuit. the heat however comes from a diesel powered furnace (30k btu) that i installed. the heater brand is Planar, a russian knock off of webasto.

the fridge is a 12v compressor rv style fridge. its a super efficient, low draw rv fridge. its ok, frequently i wish i had gone with a larger 120v fridge and inverter. my biggest complaint about it is that its too small. no chance of packing a frozen pizza in it.

my other complaint of my system is using it at high altitude. the furnace doesnt work over 9000'. it just belches white smoke like from a cheech and chong movie. i have an lp big buddy for high altitude camping.
__________________
.
Turfmobile Build Thread
turf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 09:23 AM   #11
Bus Geek
 
Brewerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by turf View Post
the bus came with the diesel generator (12kw). it has 2 crude 240v electric heaters that came with it too. it was a bookmobile and the librarian needed heat while parked. in the conversion to rv, installed a home size stove/oven that also plugs into the 240v gen wiring.

now when i need heat, i no longer have to run the generator. the primary heat comes from a diesel heater that i installed. it starts and blows off of the 12v house battery circuit. the heat however comes from a diesel powered furnace (30k btu) that i installed. the heater brand is Planar, a russian knock off of webasto.

the fridge is a 12v compressor rv style fridge. its a super efficient, low draw rv fridge. its ok, frequently i wish i had gone with a larger 120v fridge and inverter. my biggest complaint about it is that its too small. no chance of packing a frozen pizza in it.

my other complaint of my system is using it at high altitude. the furnace doesnt work over 9000'. it just belches white smoke like from a cheech and chong movie. i have an lp big buddy for high altitude camping.
Ah ok. So you wouldn't have gone with 240 if starting from scratch?

Frozen pizza!! Funny because when I was looking at RV fridges yesterday I saw one that claimed there was room for 4 frozen pizzas and here you are mentioning the same. I haven't gone looking at all the sizes (cubic foot) much less the input power but I do know I want more than an apartment size fridge. For a six pack of soda in a dorm room they are fine but 1 mayo, mustard, and ketchup and it's full. Freezer is big enough for an ice tray.

On the diesel heat I saw a guy that had a Sportmobile that he was messing with. He changed the pump rpm and it works fine at higher than 10,000'. In his particular case the controller has a potentiometer that he dials back. I think his was the Webasto. He also needed a new wick too.
Brewerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 10:51 AM   #12
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
Wood stove

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob View Post
You need a wood stove!! 26' van can't be hard to heat. Maybe hard to keep heated but that's a different issue.

A 10KW genny??? Are you using that because you HAVE it or because you NEED it? I've no idea what my useage will be but that sounds like a lot. I HAVE a 5500W gasoline genny that I'm going to use short term but again would like to switch to a single fuel.

Now if I'm drinking 30 gallons a day and it costs 4x for the appliances, then I'll just suck it up and buy some 40 lb propane tanks and hide them in a storage locker somewhere.
I do have a wood stove and it would heat this bus easily. While I'm at home it's easy to have a dry wood supply. If I go anywhere I don't want to have a half a cord of dry wood stashed in the bus, so it's not really practical for traveling in my opinion. There is firewood available at times while traveling, but most of the time it's difficult to source firewood while on the road.

An idea that I haven't heard discussed on this forum is the use of pellet stoves. Not regular household pellet stoves. I'm talking about a pellet stove that was made for tent camping, like during elk season. It requires no power and easily holds a fire for about 12 hours. Also, pellets would be easily sourced while traveling but there's still a fuel storage issue. It would be much cleaner than regular firewood.

While I'm boondocking in my own driveway I heat with electric and propane as a backup, but also have satellite TV and internet. It's a minimalist world you know.
__________________
Robin
Nobody's Business
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 11:18 AM   #13
Bus Geek
 
Brewerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin97396 View Post
An idea that I haven't heard discussed on this forum is the use of pellet stoves. Not regular household pellet stoves. I'm talking about a pellet stove that was made for tent camping, like during elk season. It requires no power and easily holds a fire for about 12 hours. Also, pellets would be easily sourced while traveling but there's still a fuel storage issue. It would be much cleaner than regular firewood.
What power does a house pellet need? There has to be a 12v mootr option out there somewhere. Even if it's a 120 motor, the current draw has to be fairly low.

Quote:
boondocking in my own driveway
Brewerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 12:13 PM   #14
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 1,635
Year: 2000
Chassis: Blue Bird
Engine: ISC 8.3
Quote:
Originally Posted by miltruckman View Post
I too have been keeping with the single fuel concept as much as possible. Everything in my bus is diesel or electric. I went with an inductive burner for the stove top and a convection oven/microwave for cooking.
I just picked up an over the range convection microwave for my house earlier this week (on sale for US$400). It's a trial for putting one in the bus. WOW! Where have these been all my life?? It has a 1.9 cu ft cavity and holds a 9x13 casserole dish comfortably. It'll take some getting used to for us to not reach in and grab something bare-handed when it has been running in bake mode.

In the house kitchen we've also been using a portable induction, umm.. hotplate? burner? cooktop? Whatever. Love it. I honestly don't remember the last time we used the smooth surface range. The portable induction unit is used about 3 times daily for about three years now.

Both of those will run individually on a modest 1.5 kW inverter or generator. Probably could run both simultaneously on 2 kW so long as the induction cooktop is at medium high or lower.
family wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 12:29 PM   #15
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
Agreed. The power draw of a fan has to be minimal. The pellet stove I was talking about has no fan, just depending on convection. I still don't know how the pellets feed evenly in that stove without some type of feed system, but it works. I believe it had one of those spring steel thermostats that somehow regulated the flow of pellets.

Now that my heating needs are greatly reduced I don't feel the need for a wood stove or even the pellet stove, except in those couple cold months in the middle of the winter. The rest of the time I don't want to give up that much space to a stove.

I tend to forget about the boondocking side of bus living while I'm parked in my driveway. I've always planned to go south for the winter so I'm saving space for that mini-split system, which also delivers heat.

As always it depends on the climate conditions of your area, or intended area.
__________________
Robin
Nobody's Business
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 02:28 PM   #16
Bus Crazy
 
turf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,356
Year: 1993
Coachwork: bluebird
Engine: 5.9 Cummins, Allison AT1545
Rated Cap: 2
i looked hard at pellet stoves for heating the bus. i have one at home that runs all winter and i like the heat it gives off.

wiseway stoves has a no power option and i've seen a picture of a bus with one but no use reports of them.

there are some 12v off grid pellets stoves too, however all i saw were ones that needed an inverter for 120v operation. when the 120 fails they could only run at low on 12v battery power.

pellet stoves are also a bit of work and messy. chances of spilling pellets is high and ash vacs suck. you always need to be there, its not like you go away for the day and its running when you get home.

Ultimately i decided on a diesel furnace. single fuel was the deciding factor. they furnace works fine, but sounds like a jet engine from the outside and the high alt problems i've had, its not a perfect solution.
__________________
.
Turfmobile Build Thread
turf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 02:48 PM   #17
Bus Geek
 
Brewerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,738
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin97396 View Post
Agreed. The power draw of a fan has to be minimal. The pellet stove I was talking about has no fan, just depending on convection. I still don't know how the pellets feed evenly in that stove without some type of feed system, but it works. I believe it had one of those spring steel thermostats that somehow regulated the flow of pellets.
Ah, I was thinking auger for the pellet feed not a fan. the little dash fans the bus came with could move air around once I find the damn switches.

Quote:
As always it depends on the climate conditions of your area, or intended area.
I tend to over do it. I don't know if I'll be in Alberta in Feb but should I get a wild hair up my arse, I want to be ABLE to do it. And not dying would be a plus.
Brewerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2017, 03:56 PM   #18
Bus Geek
 
Robin97396's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Willamina, Oregon
Posts: 6,409
Coachwork: 97 Bluebird TC1000 5.9
I agree, better to much heat than not enough. I can always open a window.

That was a Treager brand hunting tent pellet stove I've been speaking of. The factory was in Silverton Oregon but has since sold out to China manufacturers.

My understanding of this pellet stove, that doesn't need power, was there is a little fan in the exhaust that is powered by the rising smoke which in turn is gear reduced to power the feed auger. I never saw that stove running so I have no idea how well it worked. It just seemed like an excellent option during power outages.

I cut firewood for a living for a number of years, so getting wood in this area isn't a problem. It is a dirty fuel source. There's bugs on firewood that think it's spring when you bring the wood into a warm living area. The ashes are a mess during maintenance and there's always some dirt from the firewood. You just can't carry very much firewood in a bus. I don't want to be sourcing firewood while I'm away from home just so I can stay warm. When I drive somewhere I want to turn on the heat, rather than having to deal with getting more firewood as well as carrying a chainsaw with me. It's a choice, but I don't want to go on a long trip and have to deal with getting firewood, the mess and bugs or the maintenance on the stove. On the other hand I love wood heat, just not the mess inside a bus. I'm not fond of a stovepipe hanging out the window either.

I'm still stuck on the single fuel source idea, just not the expense of the appliances. I'm using electric heat while connected to the grid. Propane is to wet and wood is messy. I'm thinking there's a Webasto in my future. Now the question is coolant heat or air heater.
__________________
Robin
Nobody's Business
Robin97396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 11:56 AM   #19
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: SW New Hampshire
Posts: 1,334
My plans are to have a well insulated bus, and one of those cute lil' 1 cubic foot mini woodstoves. Hopefully that combo will keep me warm down to well below freezing. I plan to carry and use those compressed-sawdust firewood brick things you can buy at home improvement box stores, garden centers, etc. 2-3 of those will light off with a match and a sheet of typing paper, last 4 hours, and burn down to next to nothing. They don't cost all that much.

On a different but related topic: is anybody at all worried about getting busted for carrying firewood across state lines? Lotsa billboards in New England warning on that topic, emerald ash borer, etc.
dan-fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2017, 12:00 PM   #20
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: SW New Hampshire
Posts: 1,334
Also, this:

Wiseway Non-Electric Pellet Stove - Home

Our local aging-hippie woodstove & photovoltaic shop carries these, and speaks well of them. They do have a sort of cool factor to them.
dan-fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.