Resources for finding appliances?

[Yuuyia_Takahashi]

Originally Posted by Robin97396

I also found some information today that is likely also relevant to you. A number of people have mentioned buying a webasto coolant heater lately, and that has been an intent of mine too. I've always had questions about fuel consumption of the scholastic and finally found the answer. In a 24 hour period they reportedly easily consume 5 gallons of diesel under cold conditions. That would be kind of a deal breaker over the long term for me. Even during freezing weather I get about 2.5 days from a 20 lb propane tank. It appears that is about half the cost of using diesel after buying a webasto.

This is some weird weather lately. It was a quite comfortable 65 degrees today when it should be in the low 30s or snowing.

See that fuel consumption was part of my concern. there is also the aspect of EPA regulation, which I have a feeling is a contributing factor to the cost of some of the diesel appliances.
I'm with you on still leaning mainly toward propane. and strangely enough I THINK I've had a realization to "heating while in transit."

Most of these busses were equipped with coolant heaters from the factory. Which in a properly insulated space where much of the Sqft is being occupied by various built-ins and structures means that it would theoretically become more efficient. Thus, I'm considering just repositioning the OEM unit in a more central spot with some ducting to "keep the chill off" while on a lengthy drive. and running the propane when parked.

Your thoughts on that one?

And yes, here in GA we've been experiencing the same bipolar wether patterns.

[Rusty]

I prefer layered systems- Electric heat, propane heat, and diesel heat.

Use whatever energy is most plentiful at that time. Takes a bit of foresight.

[Robin97396]

Yes, fuel consumption in the long run would apparently prove to be expensive. That cost estimate was under more extreme conditions than normal heating. Estimates of fuel use I've heard in the past were about a half gallon overnight. It's possible that estimate might be for heating a trucker's sleeper and not a bus. Those scholastic coolant heaters should be a lot more powerful than my ceramic propane heater. I'm still looking at getting a diesel powered coolant heater since my bus didn't come with any type of block heater and I plan on staying off grid much of the time. That heated block could mean the difference between driving away or staying for the winter.

The OEM heaters should work adequately as long as you're driving. Propane isn't bad if you're burning it in a little furnace. My ceramic propane heater does an adequate job of heating but makes a lot of condensation. That's why a lot of us consider propane to be a backup system. You do need several layers of backups if you want to be independent and safe. I'm planning to buy a furnace at some point just to avoid the condensation issue if I do end up unsing propane more.

I subscribe heavily to the KISS theory. Instead of dealing with heaters I want to just drive to where it's warm in the winter.

[Twigg]

Originally Posted by Robin97396

I also found some information today that is likely also relevant to you. A number of people have mentioned buying a webasto coolant heater lately, and that has been an intent of mine too. I've always had questions about fuel consumption of the scholastic and finally found the answer. In a 24 hour period they reportedly easily consume 5 gallons of diesel under cold conditions. That would be kind of a deal breaker over the long term for me. Even during freezing weather I get about 2.5 days from a 20 lb propane tank. It appears that is about half the cost of using diesel after buying a webasto.

This is some weird weather lately. It was a quite comfortable 65 degrees today when it should be in the low 30s or snowing.

Take a look at the Planar diesel heaters. They are blown-air heaters. Webasto have similar, but the Scholastic isn't one of them. That unit is designed to use the bus heaters both running and parked.

The Planar are less than half the price and come in various sizes ... and use a lot less fuel.

[Yuuyia_Takahashi]

Fair enough

[Robin97396]

That doesn't heat the block. I believe the espar air heater would use less fuel than the coolant heater. I want to make sure I don't freeze to death in extreme temperatures, but I also want to be able to get my engine started in those extreme temps.

I don't actually plan on going back to Alaska during the wintertime but it's good to be prepared. I've avoided the coolant heater in the past because of the electrical draw from using the fans. I believe the heaters could be set up to use convection instead of fans.

A lot of thought goes into heat sources during the winter but it looses it's urgency during warmer weather. If I was in Alaska in the wintertime, 5 gallons of diesel per day to stay warm would seem quite reasonable. It's all about perspective.

I've looked at the espar and other russian heaters and have had a chance to read about other people's experiences with them. The word is quality counts when you need something to work. There was talk about parts corroding and other relatively minor problems that interfered with normal heating until the issues were dealt with. All this under extreme conditions. That guy went an got a webasto. I was thinking I'd skip the espar and go directly to webasto. I want it to work. I know there's no guarantees that something is going to work when you really need it. My impression is that webasto does cost to much but it also has quality.

[ben2go]

Originally Posted by Robin97396

That doesn't heat the block. I believe the espar air heater would use less fuel than the coolant heater. I want to make sure I don't freeze to death in extreme temperatures, but I also want to be able to get my engine started in those extreme temps.

I don't actually plan on going back to Alaska during the wintertime but it's good to be prepared. I've avoided the coolant heater in the past because of the electrical draw from using the fans. I believe the heaters could be set up to use convection instead of fans.

A lot of thought goes into heat sources during the winter but it looses it's urgency during warmer weather. If I was in Alaska in the wintertime, 5 gallons of diesel per day to stay warm would seem quite reasonable. It's all about perspective.

I've looked at the espar and other russian heaters and have had a chance to read about other people's experiences with them. The word is quality counts when you need something to work. There was talk about parts corroding and other relatively minor problems that interfered with normal heating until the issues were dealt with. All this under extreme conditions. That guy went an got a webasto. I was thinking I'd skip the espar and go directly to webasto. I want it to work. I know there's no guarantees that something is going to work when you really need it. My impression is that webasto does cost to much but it also has quality.

I wonder if a draft tube could be set up to help circulate air across the heater core instead of using fans. I think the fans would be needed in a really cold environment. The idea is as the heater core heats up, the heat rises up through a duct and out the top. The lower duct would take air from floor level up to the heater core to be warmed. As the heat in the bus equailzes, which I doubt it would do, the cycle would slow down and stop. The duct(s) could be built into cabinets and somewhat hidden. About the only way to get heat low is with fans of some sort. Raise the roof and install some ceiling fans.

[Robin97396]

You just described the convection system. As long as there is a temperature difference between the floor and the ceiling the air would keep moving through the heater core. Yes it does require a tube or duct of some sort.

[Yuuyia_Takahashi]

Originally Posted by ben2go

I wonder if a draft tube could be set up to help circulate air across the heater core instead of using fans. I think the fans would be needed in a really cold environment. The idea is as the heater core heats up, the heat rises up through a duct and out the top. The lower duct would take air from floor level up to the heater core to be warmed. As the heat in the bus equailzes, which I doubt it would do, the cycle would slow down and stop. The duct(s) could be built into cabinets and somewhat hidden. About the only way to get heat low is with fans of some sort. Raise the roof and install some ceiling fans.

Yeah, I'm looking into different things related to over-all body length and configuration blah blah blah... but here was my thought.

The OEM heater that typically sits at the back of the bus is heated because of the flow of engine coolant (as far as I know, but I could be wrong.) Therefore it would provide a heat source as long as the engine is up to temp while driving at briefly after parking. If I were to reposition the unit under a cabinet assembly (while still leaving an access panel or door for maintenance purposes) and have the cabinets built in such a way that the fans move the air in from the toe plate of the cabinet and out down at the ends of the cabinets it would provide a mild amount of heat to the whole bus in a circular flow pattern. So theoretically, from a docked orientation in a cooler climate setting it would play out like this....


Bus docked, running on shore utilities and onboard propane (or other heat systems if I opt out on propane)

Get everything packed up and ready to depart, switch to onboard battery power. Disconnect from shore utilities. Start up the bus to let it get up to temp before driving off, and while it's warming up shut down propane and close appropriate valves.

Depart towards next destination, With the engine warm and the OE bus heater working it would keep a certain level of warmth in the bus so that when I park and such at the next location the propane doesn't have to work as hard to get back up to a comfortable temp.

[Twigg]

I believe "Espar" is the local abbreviation for "Eberspacher".

If that is the case, then those heaters are easily the equivalent of Webasto, with just as long a tradition ... and prices to match. They are the preferred heaters for ocean-going boats in Europe.

I have heard few complaints about Planar.

[Robin97396]

I've read information posted by truckers that have used both brands of diesel heaters. The preference is clearly for webasto, although I believe they were talking about air heaters at the time.

I know webasto cost twice as much, or more. The highest quality equipment is exactly what you want when your life depends on it. If I was in arctic conditions I'd want a webasto based on what I've read on this subject. I'm told they even last longer than the other copycat brands.

There are things I cut corners on and there are things i don't cut corners on. I've learned that lesson the hard way.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Twigg

I believe "Espar" is the local abbreviation for "Eberspacher".

Same company, de-German'd name easier for the anglosphere

[Twigg]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Same company, de-German'd name easier for the anglosphere

I'd be happy with the German engineering.