Tent stoves in short busses

[Corbi]

Originally Posted by HamSkoolie

FIRST:
I would call around to the companies you want to carry the insurance on your completed rig and ask them.



SECOND:
In our 40' bus we really want a wood stove to be able to take advantage of downed wood when we're boon docking. However, the amount of space they take, the cost, and the insurance hassles are making it a tough call. We certainly would never consider putting a "tent heater" in a bus for insurance as well as safety reasons (they're not intended to survive a crash for instance).
As for Cost, a decent stove for a bus is about $650 plus shipping so figure $700. Installation materials are going to be another $600. How much diesel can be run through a 5kW diesel parking heater for $1,300 dollars?



A wood stove in a skoolie would be awesome but insurance and safety tend to make them not such an obvious choice and certainly not an easy decision as to whether to go that way or not.

All of your thoughts are well taken and serious. When I first went around local agents, and explained my vehicle, they said no without knowing about heating plans. My current provider has the vehicle insured as a van, unconverted. They don’t sell rv policies.

Stoves of this size have outputs of 3kw or less. So, I have to agree, wood burning is just not practical in a vehicle. Tent stoves are half the cost of mini-stoves. The cost of the flue pipes is probably the same or even more. Pipes do come with the stove, but they may not be adequate. What about dissembling the stove? If it’s taken down and stored securely, that would lessen the movement of sharp steel edges in the living area in a crash. I haven’t discarded this idea yet, but considering what’s left to do on the build, this can wait.

[Corbi]

Originally Posted by s2mikon

I have a wood stove in the house and the shop. They take up a lot of space, and require a lot of attention. If you find one small enough for your small bus you'll be sitting next to it tending it all the time. Just get a diesel heater and be done with it.

Point taken. I read that small stoves have half-hour burn times, then go cold. I rather be doing other things than keeping the fire going all day. Can you recommend brands of diesel heaters? My build is based on the GM 6.5 diesel.

Is, their any cost savings as a trade-off for the space and inconvenience?

[TaliaDPerkins]

A wood stove should be built and installed so it can have it's supply air cut off, and it's exhaust nearly so. If the combustion chamber is well insulated, and a heat exchange volume above it provided, then almost closing off the inlet air and leaving the exhaust a bit more open should keep the system under a slight negative pressure and the fire last a long time at a low but hot burn rate. Inlet air should come from the outside, not the inside of the heated structure/bus. The alternative approach not so easily done is to have a small hot fire burn as fast as it can but deposit the heat in a large thermal mass from which is escapes slowly over time -- too heavy for a bus I think.


To put out such a stove you close off the inlet air and once it is at a low steady state, cut it the rest of the way off.

[Rucker]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

I'm actually considering doing this down the road. My plan is to replace the hinges on my side exit door with Jeep hinges so the door can be easily removed and replaced with a door-sized box that will contain the wood stove and the flue as a separate unit. I might also have a similar unit that contains an air conditioner.

I like your thinking. While I won't be adding a wood stove to the bus I may look in to tent stoves when parked, something I can put outside and use for cooking and more efficient heat than a campfire, maybe in addition to a campfire.

Nothing like the nice crackle of a fire. 'There's no finer experience than poking a fire with a stick'. -not sure if I saw this here or elsewhere

I often fantasize about a dinky rocket stove that I could put on the kitchen table and positive vent (with a fan) through the window, but every time I start to have this fantasy I just go to Youtube and search 'RV Fires'.

[s2mikon]

The Chinese diesel parking heaters sold on ebay or amazon work good. I have 2 of them in my bus, one of them is running as I type this. About 120 dollars. The 5kw and 8kw are the same heaters. It must be a translation issue hard to believe sellers would not be truthful. They are about the size of a loaf of bread. If you mount it under a cabinet or seat it takes up little space. I bought the ones with 4 outlet ducts and it helped with warm air distribution. As a consideration to the dear wife I plumbed one of the vents to the toilet! It is like a seat heater in the car. We love them.

[bus-bro]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

I'm actually considering doing this down the road. My plan is to replace the hinges on my side exit door with Jeep hinges so the door can be easily removed and replaced with a door-sized box that will contain the wood stove and the flue as a separate unit. I might also have a similar unit that contains an air conditioner.

That's a cool idea there, musigenesis. Unfortunately for me, my emergency door is between the toilet and a shower.

[HamSkoolie]

We plan two parking heaters.
One in the living area that will double as heat in the driving area when the dash heat isn't enough.
One back near the bathroom.
The bedroom will be somewhat warmed by the one near the bathroom but will rely mainly on a 110 volt heated mattress pad.

[TheHubbardBus]

Originally Posted by Iceni John

The ubiquitous Chinese diesel heaters are cheap, work well, use the same fuel that most buses already use, and they put out a lot of safe heat for very low running costs. What's not to like? I can't think of a single reason to have a wood-burning stove in a bus!

John

I'm going with the part in red, then the part in green, and especially when the two are combined.

As far as 'work well' and 'safe', like all cheap chinese products with poor/non-existent QC, that's generally a function of luck.

Personally, I don't trust anything constructed of cheap materials that's designed to produce large amounts of heat.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus

I'm going with the part in red, then the part in green, and especially when the two are combined.

As far as 'work well' and 'safe', like all cheap chinese products with poor/non-existent QC, that's generally a function of luck.

Personally, I don't trust anything constructed of cheap materials that's designed to produce large amounts of heat.

my diesel heater story has definitely included some QA issues... nothing safety related but my VVKB story from last year that these things either leaked coolant or wouldnt light-off when it was cold outside made for a PITA...


I changed over to D&E in the early spring and had the motor burn out in that heater in september.. fortunately the parts in there now have continued to work through this current ice-cold winter....


fortunately the companies VVKB and D&E both have had VERY GOOD customer service.. however I wouldve been SOL had the heater failed to light when i was in Minnesota at -18f even the best customer service sucks then..


that said even the webasto branded heaters have their issues.. diesel heaters are like oil burner furnaces they require maintenance.. they need cleaned, fuel filters replaced, etc or after a lot of use they will start to have issues..


-Christopher

[TheHubbardBus]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

that said even the webasto branded heaters have their issues.. diesel heaters are like oil burner furnaces they require maintenance.. they need cleaned, fuel filters replaced, etc or after a lot of use they will start to have issues..

-Christopher

Something I can personally maintain and source parts for... that's a feature, not a bug.
Bonus points for not being a rip-off of someone else's hard work, research, money, & effort.

[s2mikon]

When you make a copy of something the design and execution of the original has a lot to do with how the copy turns out. The original German design was the result of decades of refinement and so the imitators could benefit from their work. I too was very concerned about the q. c. issues based on other past purchases. Here in the oilfields we have been using the Chinese tires with great results. Most tire failures are driver induced. A large percentage of the drivers are of lower quality than the tires. They run over steel fence posts hunks of scrap steel and large rocks. These heaters are not that complicated to begin with, so the risk is much lower than a wood stove in a bus or motor home.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus

Something I can personally maintain and source parts for... that's a feature, not a bug.
Bonus points for not being a rip-off of someone else's hard work, research, money, & effort.

I have plenty of Parts for my heaters and have learned how they work and how to repair them .

The webasto DBW2010 series coolant heaters on my opinion are a much simpler , tried and true design to that of the Chinese units..

They use a standard Beckett-style burner which even uses the same nozzles as regular home / commercial oil furnaces ..

No glow plug no clicker pump and no variable speed blower control.

The only reason one of these is not in my bus is because of its size and in my shorty I’m out of underneath space.

[TheHubbardBus]

Originally Posted by s2mikon

When you make a copy of something the design and execution of the original has a lot to do with how the copy turns out. The original German design was the result of decades of refinement and so the imitators could benefit from their work. I too was very concerned about the q. c. issues based on other past purchases. Here in the oilfields we have been using the Chinese tires with great results. Most tire failures are driver induced. A large percentage of the drivers are of lower quality than the tires. They run over steel fence posts hunks of scrap steel and large rocks. These heaters are not that complicated to begin with, so the risk is much lower than a wood stove in a bus or motor home.

I'm not saying Chinese is necessarily synonymous with 'low quality'. Especially not in recent times. But separating the wheat from the chaffe can prove difficult, particularly for consumer-level items sold on Amazon under a bizzillion different 'brand' names, all made in the same bizzillion different factories, which can & do change at the drop of a hat.

[Corbi]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

a lot to me would have to do with sources of dry wood.. if you have land and have known dry wood (ie you go pull out dead trees in the summer).. but wood stoves and wet wood (ie picking up stuff off the ground that may still be green).. dont go well... more than once as a tween at my parents house trying to get the wood stove going with semi-green wood..



if you are buying wood out and about it seems to me its much more expensive than buying diesel fuel. carrying your own wood its bulky for the return you get in heat..



I love a cracklin wood fire (I burn many of them in my home fireplace each year).. but not sure it would make sense in a bus.. id probably end up keeping the wood fire for outdoor campfires on mild nights..

I will have to reconsider whether the trade-offs are worth it. Its a good point about green wood. You can also say that pine burns faster than hardwood and has more residue buildup.

[Corbi]

Originally Posted by TomDPerkins

John, some of us own wooded acreage and need to exercise anyway, and also grew up with wood heat and have had it three quarters or more of our lives...


We like it.

I agree with both of you--- It doesn't sound like wood, especially store bought, would be as economical as diesel. As a kid, I was always the one making and feeding campfires, sometimes just on my own So, while having a fire ring for outside cooking or just pleasure, adding an indoor stove makes the indoor space feel like "real camping."

[Corbi]

Originally Posted by TomDPerkins

A wood stove should be built and installed so it can have it's supply air cut off, and it's exhaust nearly so. If the combustion chamber is well insulated, and a heat exchange volume above it provided, then almost closing off the inlet air and leaving the exhaust a bit more open should keep the system under a slight negative pressure and the fire last a long time at a low but hot burn rate. Inlet air should come from the outside, not the inside of the heated structure/bus. The alternative approach not so easily done is to have a small hot fire burn as fast as it can but deposit the heat in a large thermal mass from which is escapes slowly over time -- too heavy for a bus I think.


To put out such a stove you close off the inlet air and once it is at a low steady state, cut it the rest of the way off.

Thanks for that. Typically, I've been hearing about short intense burns, not slow ones. Not all kits have the flue damper built in. A slower burn makes the nearby flammables safer as the burner box may not get as hot when the fire is at a simmer. I'll attach a YouTube video of a van install that covers some of the concerns in this thread.

[Corbi]

I didn't know about those brands. I'll check them out.

[Corbi]

Originally Posted by HamSkoolie

We're looking at a wood stove for ambiance, free fuel when boondocking, and redundancy.

Even in the dead of winter one can find dry fuels in the woods. However, wood pellets, charcoal briquets, coal, and plain old waste wood that you can pick up on any craigslist free listings will work. They simply have a massively versatile fuel source that isn't dependent upon the survival of massive infrastructure systems to distribute fuel sources.
We may forgo one, but there are reasons to consider one.

I hadn't thought about CL for firewood. Good tip.

[Corbi]

This video came up in the news feed of my YT account. It shows some precautions the owner took to avoid fires and flying stoves.

YT video

[Oldyeller]

I (finally) got my insurance through Allstate. Two clear and specific prohibitions in my policy are; no roof decks, no wood burning stoves.

I was thinking about tent stoves but concluded that their very 'assemble/disassemble' nature could be a risk in a bus. I would think that anyone who would put one in a bus would take steps (make the easy disassembly less easy) to insure that nothing could 'impact' the stove causing it to loose its integrity. They aren't as solid in construction or assembly as a cast iron stove. It'd suck to have the stove come apart while in use because someone's dog gave it a good whack with its tail or because somebody, somehow hit it during a wild party (there is probably 0% chance that I'd have a party, wild or not, in my bus). I would trust myself around my wood stove or on my roof deck but not anyone else that might enter my bus at some kind of gathering. The mental image of someone falling off my roof deck was all I needed to decide I was going to cover my whole roof with solar panels.

I, as many others, have concluded that a diesel heater is the way to go. Not only that but having several sources of heat 'just in case' is prudent.