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Old 02-04-2022, 04:20 PM   #41
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I agree with both of you--- It doesn't sound like wood, especially store bought, would be as economical as diesel. As a kid, I was always the one making and feeding campfires, sometimes just on my own So, while having a fire ring for outside cooking or just pleasure, adding an indoor stove makes the indoor space feel like "real camping."

I think with wood thats the trick is having your own source.. each year my dad would go out in summer into his woods and tag the dead trees.. they were easy to spot with no foliage.. after the farmer who farms his land harvested the crops it was time to go in and take down those trees, cut them up and burn them.. they were almost never rotten and dry wood cut and split pretty easy... so he had (has) a bucnh of "free" wood (just the labor to harvest it).. the wood stove burned all winter.. burning dry hardwood could be controlled by adjusting the dampers for his air intake and also his chimney so it didnt just burn-up in an instant..



but having to go buy wood was much more $$.. at first it was easy to get pallet leftovers which were excellent in a wood stove but as propane prices skyrocketed everyone (including the pallet place) learned of that option so it got pricy and hard to get.. buying wood from local tree companies was also $$ (more than using the furnaces in the house)..



you can save a little on diesel fuel if you carry a separate tank for your heaters and burn red diesel (no road taxes).. but you must have a designated tank that is completely separate from your normal fuel tank.

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Old 02-04-2022, 08:01 PM   #42
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My feelings, and am finally at that point!, are leaning towards Planar. I have been reading about Chinese knock offs and Planar for 5 years now so that is my reasoning.
And I am certainly not building our Bus to save money.
I see it more as a challenge to overengineering.
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Old 02-04-2022, 08:12 PM   #43
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alot also depends on what happens if said heater doesnt work... is it a minor nuisance or are you in real danger of freezing up water / yoursellf /etc.. or in my case no glowplugs means anything below about minus 10 my bus will not start.. (I should probably be more serious about my heater)..



but maybe the cheaper brands make sense for people on a budget esp if it just means a chilly night sleep and not something more serious...
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Old 02-13-2022, 04:30 PM   #44
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Thank you for the tip.
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Old 04-12-2022, 09:39 AM   #45
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Not trying to resurrect anything, but I've got some knowledge/experience in this matter.

A few points for people to consider before trying this:

Insurance companies ***HATE*** wood stoves.
Probably more than they hate skoolies.
Even if you purchase one that's got the UL-1482 listing (or ULC-S627 for canuckistanians) and is ASTM-E 1509 certified, they won't like it one bit.

"Low and slow" burns--particularly using sappy woods like pines--is a big part of what causes creosote buildup, which increases the maintenance you need to do on the flue pipe.

A shorter chimney stack results in less draw from the flue, which makes for more smoke and a dirtier burn, and can cause backdraft problems as well, leading to interior smoke. This can be mitigated by using a draft-increasing chimney cap, which acts like a wing or a carburetor to decrease the wind/air pressure around the top of the flue pipe, yielding an increase of static air pressure inside the flue, which can help correct draft issues on the inside, as well as help the quality and cleanliness of the burn. Without a flue-damper, though, this can also create draft/insulation problems during the summer; and these chimney toppers can also create additional draft issues while traveling on the highways, sucking out what air you're able to condition.

Hauling wood around, aside from literally lugging around dead weight inside the RV, can also create "pest/environmental" (or legal) issues (if you travel to some of the places that check for things like that). Nothing like getting tied up with some statie or park/game warden because you can't 'prove your wood is local/pest/disease-free'.

It will always be better to burn hotter, and to try to figure out a way to store that heat using some kind of thermal mass as a battery than it is to burn low and smokey. If you use something like a rocket stove or other wood-burner that is able to draft horizontally for a length before going up the flue pipe, my honest thoughts would be to try and route the wood heater exhaust through either the fresh or grey water tank, and you would have to protect the insertion points from melting the common plastic that is used from the heat as well. You would also need to devise a pressure-relief valve in the event of over-pressurizing.

Done right, it is an extremely economical and reliable way to heat an RV; however, there aren't very many off-the-shelf components to work with, and it requires a bit of engineering to be able to pull off successfully. Most people are probably better off using some kind of typical heater commercially available for their rigs, but for the few mad-scientist/inventor types capable of pulling it off--and living in an area where fuel is plentiful--it's probably the most economical and efficient method.
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Old 04-12-2022, 01:41 PM   #46
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Very good observations and conclusions. I strongly recommend against wood stoves, but encourage those choosing to put one it to do it as safely as possible.

Regarding creosote, I'm totally with you that an efficient burn requires some engineering. Not enough research is out there on the 'best' stove delivering steady heat without choking combustion.

We don't talk much about thermal mass in this forum but I agree if there were a way to store the heat that doesn't take up space or add excessive weight...I think the whole wood stove benefit/risk/cost equation is just too wonky to make sense as a heating device. Fun to noodle on though.

I'm leaning towards a candle stove for ambiance.

Draft is lower air pressure.
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Old 04-12-2022, 01:57 PM   #47
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I think the whole wood stove benefit/risk/cost equation is just too wonky to make sense as a heating device.
I actually think that it's possibly one of the best heating devices, myself. But I also work for a company that makes a product with a better combustion rate than Musk's penis-rocket as measured by the EPA under 2020 rules.

Especially if you combine it with thermal mass using water you're already carrying, which has twice the heat capacity of concrete, and a very nice Specific Heat (kJ/kg oC or Btu/lb oF)... As an engineer, it makes a LOT of sense. Especially considering that, whenever you're likely to be running a wood heater, you're also likely to be desiring warm water, or concerned about water tanks freezing. And, running with a thermal mass, you're far more likely to get every ounce of heat out of the fuel that you're paying for--one way or another.

Rocket stoves make more sense in this regard than many of the other kinds of wood burning stoves out there, but they tend to be unregulated, largely because the regulatory bodies hate them even more than they hate other wood-burning products.
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Old 04-12-2022, 03:39 PM   #48
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Another consideration about use of wood burning stoves:
Some locals regulate the use of wood burning stoves. Klamath County monitors the air quality on a daily basis and will require that no one can use their wood stoves on bad air days. I believe Santa Cruz County does the same thing. Usually when one needs to use their heat the most, is when the air is "bad".


When there are "no burn" days and you use your wood heat, the county can fine you for burning anyways.



If you live in the sticks its probably not an issue, but if you are in the suburbs it could be.

Just a thought.
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Old 04-12-2022, 03:44 PM   #49
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I can't imagine living anywhere that the government has such insane ideas about what kind of power it holds.

For me, part of building a skoolie was to get out and away from that kind of insanity.

But then, I also live in an area where corrupt government officials have a habit of disappearing, and it doesn't really even make the local news.
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Old 04-12-2022, 03:45 PM   #50
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But I also work at a company that makes wood heaters that make no smoke, so outside of monitoring detailed thermal signatures, they aren't really going to be able to notice, either.
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Old 04-12-2022, 04:06 PM   #51
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I actually think that it's possibly one of the best heating devices, myself. But I also work for a company that makes a product with a better combustion rate than Musk's penis-rocket as measured by the EPA under 2020 rules.

Especially if you combine it with thermal mass using water you're already carrying, which has twice the heat capacity of concrete, and a very nice Specific Heat (kJ/kg oC or Btu/lb oF)... As an engineer, it makes a LOT of sense. Especially considering that, whenever you're likely to be running a wood heater, you're also likely to be desiring warm water, or concerned about water tanks freezing. And, running with a thermal mass, you're far more likely to get every ounce of heat out of the fuel that you're paying for--one way or another.

Rocket stoves make more sense in this regard than many of the other kinds of wood burning stoves out there, but they tend to be unregulated, largely because the regulatory bodies hate them even more than they hate other wood-burning products.
The amateur engineer in me say yes, bring on the auxiliary heat exchange coil with a thermostatically controlled pump sinking heat in a water tank that in turn conditions the air around the minisplit. But going on two years into my build I say 'gimme a diesel heater any day of the week'.

I'm not sure there's any condition where a wood stove would be the 'best' solution.
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Old 04-12-2022, 04:08 PM   #52
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And for those with a stove, has anyone used marble (better: soapstone) to timeshift the BTUs?

Or anyone with some experience with hearths and surrounds extending the heating period?
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Old 04-12-2022, 04:12 PM   #53
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...But going on two years into my build...
This, so much...

Serious question, though...
Are they ever truly "done"?

I don't think that will ever be the case, honestly.
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Old 04-12-2022, 04:51 PM   #54
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I can't imagine living anywhere that the government has such insane ideas about what kind of power it holds.
Welcome the the "United" States of America
You will NOT use non EPA certified wood stoves
If we tell you no burning you can't use it.
If you're in San Francisco you can't have one at all.
You must burn food in your gasoline and diesel engines (alcohol & biodiesel)

You will NOT possess arms that we have no authority over but banned anyway.
You will NOT drink until you're 21 but here's a rifle we banned. Don't worry, you work for us so we say it's okay.
Shall I go on?


They snuck that stuff right in there on ya!!!!
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Old 04-12-2022, 04:56 PM   #55
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What arms?
You can't prove I ever had any in the first place.

And ever since I got out of the military, I've basically refused to comply with any registration or licensing or applications to do anything remotely close to that in the first place.

I now live in an area that effectively doesn't have any zoning laws, or building codes, and has basically criminalized local LEO/government compliance with feds attempting to enforce federal gun laws. It is technically legal where I live for me to make a machine cannon-gun in my basement, and then sell it to you, my neighbor, if I wanted to.

But to the best of my knowledge, it hasn't been challenged legally, yet, either.

But then, we would both have automatic machine cannon-guns, now wouldn't we?
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Old 04-12-2022, 04:56 PM   #56
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And for those with a stove, has anyone used marble (better: soapstone) to timeshift the BTUs?

Or anyone with some experience with hearths and surrounds extending the heating period?
Soapstone stoves are AWESOME though I don't know how they would fare in a mobile situation. A buddy has one and it's still keeping the house warm 12 and 14 hours after the fire goes out. AMAZING


Thermal mass is a difficult thing for some to get though. My GF for instance insists on turning down the heat at night (practically off) because "we're in bed under blankets and have an electric mattress pad". Our home was built in the 40's, wood frame but VERY THICK concrete like sheets (between lathe and plaster and modern drywall) to which the interior mortar like "plaster" is adhered. So the wall outside the studs is about an inch of what is basically concrete and has a lot of thermal mass.
Every morning, the heaters go on full bore for HOURS to bring all that mass back up to temp. Get near a wall in the mean time and you can FEEL to cold attacking you.
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Old 04-12-2022, 04:59 PM   #57
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Soapstone stoves are AWESOME though I don't know how they would fare in a mobile situation.
This would be my chief worry using 'conventional' thermal mass. Vibrations are likely to crack and shatter the stuff, at least the kinds of places I like to go.
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Old 04-12-2022, 06:17 PM   #58
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a better combustion rate than Musk's penis-rocket

You mean Bezos', right?





Quote:
I now live in an area that effectively doesn't have any zoning laws, or building codes, and has basically criminalized local LEO/government compliance with feds attempting to enforce federal gun laws. It is technically legal where I live for me to make a machine cannon-gun in my basement, and then sell it to you, my neighbor, if I wanted to.

Mexico?
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Old 04-12-2022, 07:28 PM   #59
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This, so much...

Serious question, though...
Are they ever truly "done"?

I don't think that will ever be the case, honestly.
Paraphrasing, 'no work of art is ever done; it is abandoned.'

In my case I just need to finish waterproofing the shower, installing the composting toilet topper, grout the kitchen tile, install the den-dri, put in privacy curtains, secure the toolbox in the bumper porch, remount the inverter, design/build the table, secure the second passenger seat, fab and install the cabinet doors, install three puck lights under the overhead cabinets, and reinstall the radio.

Then I can take it for an overnight.
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Old 04-12-2022, 09:39 PM   #60
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Thermal mass is MASS very heavy do not want to carry it around when you don't need it.

Water is great, just dump when unneeded.

Hydronic circulation, tie into engine coolant loop, electric element when attached to the grid, calorifiers, radiators,

HWS is a bonus and those tanks are your buffers, strategically placed.

But really tight insulation nice and thick when needed is by far the best investment, even if you are collecting wood
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