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Old 06-28-2021, 01:27 PM   #1
Bus Nut
 
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Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Year: 1995
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DT466 / MD3060
Those who keep the factory AC - Do you use it?

Skoolie fam!
My wife and I have entered into a debate - to keep, or not to keep, the factory AC.
We have a 95 BlueBird / International 3800 with a big ol' factory AC mounted to the roof in the rear of the bus.
Originally I wanted to keep it - I've seen a lot of "don't remove the factory AC if you can help it" posts, but I've also seen a lot of people remove them.
My wife hates it - it is huge, ugly, and hanging right over our bed. It takes up a ton of valuable space in a small living situation (I can agree there)

My question(s) to you:
  • If you kept your factory AC, do you use it?
  • How often do you use your factory AC?
  • I can only run the AC while the engine is on, so only while driving - right? I feel like it would be bad to just let the engine idle so I can run the AC.

Some background:
We plan to chase the 75 / 85 degree weather most if we can help it, but want to be sure we can stay cool if a heat wave comes through or if we get stuck somewhere hot for longer than expected. We're debating between removing the AC to install a mini-split or RV AC to run from a generator / shore power - OR keeping the factory AC and adding an additional RV AC to run from said generator/shore power.
I know nothing about HVAC, so I feel like I'll need to call in some help to remove the AC should we go that route - and I'll also probably need some help installing a mini split if we do that. . .

Any and all input is much appreciated - y'all have been the best resource, thank you so much!

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Old 06-28-2021, 01:41 PM   #2
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I’m sure some others will chime in here. I removed my condenser to relocate it. In the meantime I’ve been using the bus and despite the the ideal of chasing ideal weather, it’s inevitable that you’ll have hot hot days and wish you’d had it. I’m not too technically knowledgeable about AC, but based on your bus I’m guessing there’s more than one evaporator. That you have one in front and one in back. Maybe it’s possible and desirable to remove the evaporator over the bed and keep the one in the cockpit.
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Old 06-28-2021, 01:53 PM   #3
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The bus AC is intended to be run when the bus is in motion, so yes, it really only comes into play when you're driving. Best not to run it at idle or when stopped, unless you are in traffic (watch the temp gauge creep up) or want to cool it down to do some quick work inside by blasting it for a few minutes.

The engine drives the AC compressor(s) (two if you have a separate front system), and elevated RPMs, above idle, ensure engine coolant is circulating fast enough to keep everything cool.

I rented an RV to prepare for the conversion. We drove across Nevada on route 50 in June of last year. The RV had front AC (useless in the back) and a roof-mounted AC that you could run if the generator was on. We blasted the generator and the AC and it was honestly not bearable. I honestly don't understand why people would spend fifty grand plus for an RV that can't keep you comfortable.

So we have the bus AC for driving, and a portable floor unit that runs off the house electrical (or shore power) when stopped.

The unit is in the back, over the bed, and is not blocking anything. Our bed is aligned with the bus (not put sideways), and even then the AC unit is not in the way. I guess if you wanted to put the bed elsewhere it would be in the way. Most conversions put the bedroom in the back.

Friends don't let friends rip out their AC :-')
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Old 06-28-2021, 02:45 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rucker View Post
So we have the bus AC for driving, and a portable floor unit that runs off the house electrical (or shore power) when stopped.
What floor unit do you use / how big is your battery bank?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rucker View Post
Friends don't let friends rip out their AC :-')
love this - I really don't want to take it out, just have to convince my wife. . .
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Old 06-28-2021, 02:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danjo View Post
I’m sure some others will chime in here. I removed my condenser to relocate it.
I have thought about moving the whole unit, I need to open it up to see how it all works. As mentioned, I know nothing about HVAC so pardon my lame terminology:
Without removing the cover of the AC, I can see that there are 2 pairs of black hoses (4 hoses total) running from the engine all the way back to the AC. 2 hoses on each side, running into the AC housing. In addition to the 2 hoses running into each side of the unit, there is a white tube coming out through the floor and is just hanging open (assuming for draining)

The engine has 2 AC compressors, I think?
I posted a pic of the AC unit in the bus (ah the good ol days when it was clean, before we gutted her) -sorry for the sideways photo, i forgot to resize before uploading x.x
I'll go take some photos of the engine, hoses, and closeup of the unit.
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Old 06-28-2021, 03:35 PM   #6
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all im going to say about this is ive gotten and repurposed a lot of bus A/C that ive helped people take out that was unwanted.. ive had quite a few people call back and ask "can you give me that A/C back?.. " or "I ripped out my A/C and still have it can you help me put it back?".. only to end up ordering north of $1000 in parts for what they destroyed taking it out...


every RV that is factory made that ive driven with the exception of a couple.. has had engine-driven A/C for the road and electric A/C for when parked-up. the exceptions to the rule was a 1968 winnebago that has only a rooftop A/C.. and a million dollar Prevost that had 6!.. count em 6! rooftop units that ran off a monster size ONAN generator.. and even that bus has a smaller engine-driven dashboard A/C for the driver..


now lets go onto your Ugly A/C.. relocate it.. or take the ugly units out and replace them with nice bulkhead units.. or take one system completely out and replace it with a nice bulkhead system upfront and then have 2 or 3 rooftops for when parked..



if you insulate your bus really nicely then one engine-driven system will keep at least half the bus cool.. and you can help out with the rooftop or 2 if its really hot and someone wants to ride in the back. the front bulkhead style units can use your same compressor and condenser.. yes you'll spend some $$ to rework it but its a nice clean setup...



https://www.proairllc.com/ev-1-in-wall-evaporator/


as for do I use my A/C?? hell yeah I do.. I added a complete system 3 evaporators and 2 compressors to one buss (complete with custom dash-air) my other daily driver bus came with a nice Trans/Air unit that I revamped and run all the time.. screw the hot noisy sweaty freeway wind or getting stuck in traffic.. or even a somewhat nice day and the bus sat in the sun all day and is stifling inside.. its 2021 not 1921.. im gonna mash the A/C button and say Ahhhh..
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Old 06-28-2021, 03:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear Gerschafer View Post
What floor unit do you use / how big is your battery bank?


love this - I really don't want to take it out, just have to convince my wife. . .
I have a Hisense 8,000 BTU DOE (12,000 ASHRAE, for whatever that's worth). Draws 11 amps and has a soft start. Works fine in my wide open 6-window bus up until about 80 degrees. Unsure whether it will do the job at 100+ yet because I haven't put in the window coverings or planned canopy, but it runs fine on my 280 AH LiFePo battery and Renogy 2K Watt Pure Sine inverter.

No other devices on the inverter except a few laptops, so I should be good.
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Old 06-28-2021, 05:45 PM   #8
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my ac system

I am using ideas that Cadillac Kid has talked about.

I have a complete system I took out of another bus... roof mount chiller - called the evaporator.... and under bus condensor - the part that turns hot gas into liquid. this is run from it's own compressor on the top of the engine.

second part of the system I am still putting together... a chiller section on the fire wall along with heater unit.... cold air for front of the bus and defroster for cold wet days.... and this has a second compressor mounted in the same location as a mid 90's dodge truck.

My goal is to keep this bus in 80's when it is 100+ degrees outside... I will run the engine when sitting still if I need to in the daytime like when we stop for toilet breaks, making lunch, making snacks, if we are stopping and it looks like we will not stop for long.

Our on board toilet does not get used when in motion.... I have six kids onboard and when gets one has to go pee, they all do.... so I pull off the road and stop.

You know that thing when a woman says to another woman " Lets go to the ladies room." That starts at age 3. when one girl says she has to go..... they all have to go.

The main use for my 1954 bus is travel hauler...

william
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Old 06-28-2021, 05:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnakansas View Post
I am using ideas that Cadillac Kid has talked about.

I have a complete system I took out of another bus... roof mount chiller - called the evaporator.... and under bus condensor - the part that turns hot gas into liquid. this is run from it's own compressor on the top of the engine.

second part of the system I am still putting together... a chiller section on the fire wall along with heater unit.... cold air for front of the bus and defroster for cold wet days.... and this has a second compressor mounted in the same location as a mid 90's dodge truck.

My goal is to keep this bus in 80's when it is 100+ degrees outside... I will run the engine when sitting still if I need to in the daytime like when we stop for toilet breaks, making lunch, making snacks, if we are stopping and it looks like we will not stop for long.

Our on board toilet does not get used when in motion.... I have six kids onboard and when gets one has to go pee, they all do.... so I pull off the road and stop.

You know that thing when a woman says to another woman " Lets go to the ladies room." That starts at age 3. when one girl says she has to go..... they all have to go.

The main use for my 1954 bus is travel hauler...

william

my DEV bus is all stock 7 window bus high headroom non tinted windows and that dual compressor system keeps me at 73-75 in texas 104 degree august heat.. so your bus being insulated and all will probably stay as cool as you want.. and ofcourse that 73-75 is with lots of air moving inside... being i installed dash air complete with the old-school (if you are over 45 you'll remember) the crotch / footwell vents.. so i have cool air combatting any remaining engine heat that I didnt quash with all the firewall sealing and dynamatting i did. today in ohio its sunny , 94, dewpoint 72 and it was 68 in the driver area after i drove for awhile..
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Old 06-28-2021, 09:38 PM   #10
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Thank you all for the replies! I just got back in from taking the AC housing off - sadly it is one solid unit so I cannot split it up. I really liked the idea of moving half up front and keeping half by our feet above the bed.

Without the housing, the unit really isn't as big as it seems - I can definitely build something around this that is a bit more pleasing to the eye than the giant, beige plastic housing.

I think I'm going to compromise with my wife; keep the factory AC for driving and install a mini-split (somewhere?!) or a RV AC into the roof.

My questions continue, this time with more photos below
  • Any ideas on how I could fabricate some ducts to run the 2 side vents up to the front of the bus? There are 3 blowers total, split into 6 vents - my idea is to run the middle 2 vents into the bedroom, and split the side 2 vents up along side the bus to blow into the living area and driver seat.
  • Any recommendations on cleaning this sucker up? It is totally coated in black dust, assuming brake & L.A. road dust traveling up the columns that hold the hosing. Afraid it might be clogging the 2 radiators in there.
  • There is a knob in back, assuming to control the temperature of the unit?
  • Last question - any idea why there would be these little ropes tied to the radiator coils on each end?! The ropes are just hanging there, but are tied in similar places on each radiator.

You are all truly amazing - I hope to run into each of you on the road some day so we can cook you dinner.
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Old 06-28-2021, 10:41 PM   #11
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Engine: cummins 12 valve
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ducting....

The first thing that comes to my mind is glue together pvc.... like what is used for bathtub drains... NOT pressure pipe but sewer... smooth on the inside and light weight. I would bet you might be able to find some sort of rectangle plastic parts that would go over those vent holes and then you can glue round tube to that...I would look for the lightest weight material I could find.... and cheap.

There might be some off the shelf fiberglass tubes....

google "defroster ducts" then look around....

If you knew how - I dont - you could have parts 3D printed.... custom... There are plastic downspouts used for rain gutters.... Hell you might be even able to make them movable .... have flexible bits at the unit and move the other ends around..... for drives you could extend to the front for driver/passenger..... shorten them up for middle of the bus when parked and engine running.... like when you might stop for fuel or snacks at some road side retreat.

I think those rope things are sensor wires.... the ends I expect, if you look are kind of embedded into the matrix of the fins.... they are temp sensor wires... the other end connect to some sort of electrical part... that is a pure guess on my parts. I cant tell from the pictures for sure.

I dont have a good picture of the symbol on that knob.... but I suspect that is used to adjust a temperature control to keep the coils from freezing could actually be a thermostat.

I am surprised there are two evaporator coils.....

william
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Old 06-29-2021, 12:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear Gerschafer View Post
What floor unit do you use / how big is your battery bank?


love this - I really don't want to take it out, just have to convince my wife. . .
You could lock her in the bus for an hour on a hot day...that should convince her to keep the AC. Might want to send someone else to let her out.

You may want to keep the factory housing for the bottom it should be set up with a condensate drain. I'm guessing that the rope gave the condensate a path to run bottom cover so that it wasn't dripping and splashing.

My bus had ducting that was part of the parcel rack. I'm building new ducting with bent 1/8" x 1" strap and sheetmetal.

Ted
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Old 06-29-2021, 11:42 AM   #13
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Good call on keeping the original housing, it definitely was designef to catch condensation and route through the train tubes..
Also great idea on those ropes ... they are crusty like they've been wet in the past. They lay right into the drain pan
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Old 06-29-2021, 12:00 PM   #14
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Line-hide. or in my case the brand is diversitech speedichannel.. its actually designed for hiding A/C linesets on the outsiide of buildings for minisplits.. however it makes great ducting.. you mount half of it to the surface and then attached the top piece.. no visible screws.. you can run flex duct inside it or use it as the duct itself, cutting holes in it and installing vents.. there are straight pieces, flex pieces, corners, and angles.. and lots of companies make roud and square vents you can cut out holes for and snap in.. air wont want to push through your vernts as its high velocity in the duct but you can put baffles in to catch the air and direct it to your vents.. the line heide comes in I think,2",4", and 6" widths and lengths of varying..



https://www.diversitech.com/en-US/feature-product-line


all kinds of different vents, hoses, collars, etc..


https://www.proairllc.com/products/louvers/


your evaporator unit is a 3 motor 6 blower system. you can cover each one of those square openings and seal off to a duct and it will generate pretty decent static pressure and volume.. the blowers are pretty powerful.. if you need more air I have a part number someplace of a more powerful motor.. also you may find that the "black" wire for the blower speeds was not wired.. the black wire bypasses the resistor packs completely and is a Super-speed.. the EM-1 i added to my DEV bus uses black for high speed and it moves lots of air.. you may need a larger feed wire if you use the black speed (I ran 4 gauge to my 4 blower unit and it has very little voltage drop)..
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Old 06-29-2021, 03:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
Line-hide. or in my case the brand is diversitech speedichannel.. its actually designed for hiding A/C linesets on the outsiide of buildings for minisplits.. however it makes great ducting.. you mount half of it to the surface and then attached the top piece.. no visible screws.. you can run flex duct inside it or use it as the duct itself, cutting holes in it and installing vents.. there are straight pieces, flex pieces, corners, and angles.. and lots of companies make roud and square vents you can cut out holes for and snap in.. air wont want to push through your vernts as its high velocity in the duct but you can put baffles in to catch the air and direct it to your vents.. the line heide comes in I think,2",4", and 6" widths and lengths of varying..



https://www.diversitech.com/en-US/feature-product-line


all kinds of different vents, hoses, collars, etc..


https://www.proairllc.com/products/louvers/


your evaporator unit is a 3 motor 6 blower system. you can cover each one of those square openings and seal off to a duct and it will generate pretty decent static pressure and volume.. the blowers are pretty powerful.. if you need more air I have a part number someplace of a more powerful motor.. also you may find that the "black" wire for the blower speeds was not wired.. the black wire bypasses the resistor packs completely and is a Super-speed.. the EM-1 i added to my DEV bus uses black for high speed and it moves lots of air.. you may need a larger feed wire if you use the black speed (I ran 4 gauge to my 4 blower unit and it has very little voltage drop)..
Powerful Cadillackid, thank you so much - your posts are so helpful, I cant "thank" you in-forum because it turns out you were actually the last person I "thanked" haha.

I think I've seen you post about those ducts somewhere else here - I'll try to track those down, or something similar. The hoses running up to the AC are actually hidden by something very similar.
Will also look for that black wire and/or try to get some better photos of how it is wired up.
-Would I look for the wire on the unit-side or switch-side in my dash?
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Old 07-03-2021, 03:24 PM   #16
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First... Women go to the bathroom to talk about you. Second... They do it for protection against scuzzy guys hanging around to hit on them.
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Old 07-03-2021, 03:42 PM   #17
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I'm glad I kept my engine driven A/C! We have toured in places that our genny/shore powered ones(s) would have had no hope of keeping things bearable.
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Old 07-03-2021, 04:29 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by ChuckRatto View Post
I'm glad I kept my engine driven A/C! We have toured in places that our genny/shore powered ones(s) would have had no hope of keeping things bearable.
Do you use it while parked or just while driving to keep things cool before you park and use the gen/shore power?


On the subject of generators - do any of you have experience with a propane generator? Just a thought - one less fuel type I would have to carry. . .
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Old 07-03-2021, 07:00 PM   #19
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really the main purpose of engine driven A/C is to have a comfortable drive.. it probably does helpthe shore A/C if you get it turned on fairly quickly after you park then it would be a way to pre-cool the inside but really its like a car air-conditioner.. so you can run with the windows closed keeping out a lot of the dirt, noise, and heat of the roads. ive driven through some pretty dusty areas, if my bus were a camper or a home id have hated to be going with the windows down where everything is coated in dust when I arrived...
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Old 07-04-2021, 01:58 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear Gerschafer View Post
Skoolie fam!
My wife and I have entered into a debate - to keep, or not to keep, the factory AC.
We have a 95 BlueBird / International 3800 with a big ol' factory AC mounted to the roof in the rear of the bus.
Originally I wanted to keep it - I've seen a lot of "don't remove the factory AC if you can help it" posts, but I've also seen a lot of people remove them.
My wife hates it - it is huge, ugly, and hanging right over our bed. It takes up a ton of valuable space in a small living situation (I can agree there)

My question(s) to you:
  • If you kept your factory AC, do you use it?
  • How often do you use your factory AC?
  • I can only run the AC while the engine is on, so only while driving - right? I feel like it would be bad to just let the engine idle so I can run the AC.

Some background:
We plan to chase the 75 / 85 degree weather most if we can help it, but want to be sure we can stay cool if a heat wave comes through or if we get stuck somewhere hot for longer than expected. We're debating between removing the AC to install a mini-split or RV AC to run from a generator / shore power - OR keeping the factory AC and adding an additional RV AC to run from said generator/shore power.
I know nothing about HVAC, so I feel like I'll need to call in some help to remove the AC should we go that route - and I'll also probably need some help installing a mini split if we do that. . .

Any and all input is much appreciated - y'all have been the best resource, thank you so much!
Ruth and I live in the desert of SW New Mexico. We had three big ac units in our 40' AmTrans Pusher. I kept banging my head on two of the units, and the rear unit went all the way across the bus. I yanked it all out and offered the components here but had no takers. I got a lot of flack from the , "you'll be sorry you did that gang." We aren't.

We did I stall a 12K mini split in the rear of the bus. We spend most of our time back there. If I am driving on a very hot day, or we just want the whole bus cool we use a squirrel cage blower type fan to help get the cooler air forward.

In your much smaller bus a 12K unit should do fine even when you are going down the road.
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